godhelpme89
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Questions for those who have read the rules

Sun 27 Dec 2020, 00:42

I hope this doesn’t come off as one of those cheesy “convince me this game is worth my time threads.”
I’m in my 40’s and loved this game as a kid, but some of the things I enjoyed back then wouldn’t interest me now.
For example, I loved the whole fight the Russians and all of that, but now as an adult I couldn’t care less. I would like to play a struggle for food or trying to get home to family instead of shooting “commies.” The reason I ask is because I’ve seen a lot of talk about operation reset (or whatever it’s called) and it just seems goofy and out of place.
Also the whole alternate time line thing. It seems like either a cop out, they didn’t want to upset the Chinese or whatever modern day threat they wanted to use. Or they are trying to cash in on old farts like me with the name twilight 2000. Is there enough rules in the game that I could use any “bad guy” or like the originals will I have to wait for an expansion?
Thanks in advance.
 
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Fenhorn
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Re: Questions for those who have read the rules

Sun 27 Dec 2020, 01:25

For example, I loved the whole fight the Russians and all of that, but now as an adult I couldn’t care less. I would like to play a struggle for food or trying to get home to family instead of shooting “commies.” The reason I ask is because I’ve seen a lot of talk about operation reset (or whatever it’s called) and it just seems goofy and out of place.
Since this is not a GM section (where spoilers can be discussed) lets not discuss Operation Reset. Also, the books we have are alpha books so we don't know much about it, except for the idea for it (a logical idea I must say). But as in all games with a campaign idea built in to them, it can be skipped. Myself, I managed to play Mutant: Year Zero for two years before we actually did the Path to Eden campaign (the "campaign for that game).
Also the whole alternate time line thing. It seems like either a cop out, they didn’t want to upset the Chinese or whatever modern day threat they wanted to use. Or they are trying to cash in on old farts like me with the name twilight 2000. Is there enough rules in the game that I could use any “bad guy” or like the originals will I have to wait for an expansion?
Thanks in advance.
If you want to create a WWIII setting in Europe (Poland and Sweden to be precise), then perhaps letting the war start and have its main focus in Europe seems logic in a way. The leaders of SU wanted to take back what they lost because of the fall of the Berlin wall and Warsaw pact.
The game is a survival game in a WWIII environment and can be used as such. I plan to use it to play some sort of larger scale of "This War of Mine".. Building up a base, survive, find other survivors, probably be forced to find a new hope and so on, regardless if that will fit into this Op. Reset or not.
"Thanks for noticing' me." - Eeyore
 
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omnipus
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Re: Questions for those who have read the rules

Mon 28 Dec 2020, 00:12

I've recently started running a test campaign. It seems my players weren't terribly interested in fighting a righteous war against the Reds, either, because less than half of them chose military backgrounds. I've had to lean more heavily into learning about other aspects (like Poland itself! I am suddenly struck by how little background there is that gives context to Poland as a political, geographical, historical entity. There's a lot of fascinating stuff out there, that could even be used to flesh out the backstory substantially.)

In any case, I agree that Operation Reset seems at first glance to be as you say, kinda goofy. There's not a lot of information out there about what it is supposed to be, so I guess I'll reserve full judgement, but it is hinted at as some sort of panacea that will right the world. Hard to see how that would come to pass. I will be making very scant reference to it -- in large part because I'm not comfortable/equipped to answer any questions that might come up!

That said, I'm otherwise perfectly happy with the alternate history. The game name does have a lot of brand recognition (the flip side is that a lot of the people who recognize it are a different breed of old farts who seem lost in nostalgia and unwilling to accept change. Twilight: 2000 gatekeepers, if you will.) but only 1 of my players really knew what it was before we started. China was not generally considered a giant threat by most in the '80s and '90s. Actually that time period was the peak of Japanese panic, hilarious as that sounds today.

Anyway, all this to say it's fundamentally a sandbox game from the fairly old-school tradition. There's nothing stopping you from changing or ignoring the setting; there's lots of ways to have a nuclear war and frankly, to most of the survivors, it probably won't ever matter how it happened. Even if you don't ignore the setting, you could focus on local politics between marauder gangs, deserters, etc. That's where my campaign looks to be heading.
Author, Central Poland Sourcebook -- now available on DriveThruRPG
 
welsh
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Re: Questions for those who have read the rules

Mon 28 Dec 2020, 18:03

For my part, I am much less interested in fighting the Soviets as a theme than in surviving the collapse, because I've changed since the original game. I am much more interested nowadays in how ordinary people (including civilians) cope and fare in the gameworld than I am in playing out repeated ambushes of Soviet convoys. And I think the new edition does a great job of supporting that style of play.

(Although I think you really do need a more solid idea of Poland as something other than a sand table to play on, which has been a problem in all editions.)

By the way, Op Reset was in 1E. It appears as a subplot in The Free City of Krakow.
 
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omnipus
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Re: Questions for those who have read the rules

Tue 29 Dec 2020, 21:05

Oh really? Huh. That was one of the modules that I never had, for whatever reason. I guess you'll be able to say someday how similar they are. It certainly seems like a much bigger aspect out of the gate here, which I interpreted as part of our post-LOST existence.

On the other hand, there is strangely ZERO mention of the Free City of Krakow at all in the base rules here, which struck me as slightly odd. I guess instead maybe they are trying to draw players towards Warsaw? There's not much of that yet either though, honestly.

And yeah agreed, it is very strange that really none of the Twilight publications (until you get into modules) have addressed what it's like to be in Poland. Back in the day I had an entirely incorrect view on it on pretty much every level from lifestyle to geography and everything in between. Today, at least, I can easily tell you what the sights and sounds are and the internet makes the rest accessible. But still very little of that is in the book. And absolutely no background/cultural aspects. Kind of a shame in all editions! It turns out there's a ton of fascinating stuff that could be done with Solidarity, the Catholic church, CIA involvement with both, etc... including some very clear points where a very small turn into alternate history would definitely have turned Poland into a crisis point precipitating a world war!
Author, Central Poland Sourcebook -- now available on DriveThruRPG
 
welsh
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Re: Questions for those who have read the rules

Wed 30 Dec 2020, 05:10

Yes, Google Earth has taught me that my vision of the Polish countryside ca. 1985 was utterly wrong. There is so much we can do now to give colour to a campaign, not to mention plots....

Also, my pronunciation of Polish place names has improved immeasurably. :)

But this stuff is maybe best left out of the books, because it leaves people free to play their own games.
 
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omnipus
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Re: Questions for those who have read the rules

Wed 30 Dec 2020, 22:33

I dunno. You can be free to play your own game in any number of settings. But the setting info is usually there! Maybe it's just traditional -- GDW didn't think players would be interested in learning/knowing about Poland, or didn't have the knowledge? And it's just continued since then? But I can honestly not think of any other RPG that offers less broad background on its actual literal setting, other than maybe some Old West titles where you can safely assume most people are working from the same picture to begin with.

Even then, you can play all sorts of Old West games in all sorts of variations of that setting.

As for the pronunciation, yes. It is a tough language at first but I decided I should probably grasp the basics at least! I saw an actual play video that pronounced Łódź as "Todd's" and I was super confused for quite a while. It's actually pronounced more like "Woodj." If your players all are on the same page and grasp "Todd's" then I guess that's fine -- but it's the same discussion. Getting stuff like that wrong kills immersion for anyone who knows better, same as saying the AK-47 was the issued Soviet rifle would. Getting it right makes the world richer and better.
Author, Central Poland Sourcebook -- now available on DriveThruRPG
 
welsh
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Re: Questions for those who have read the rules

Thu 31 Dec 2020, 00:21

Maybe it's just traditional -- GDW didn't think players would be interested in learning/knowing about Poland, or didn't have the knowledge? And it's just continued since then?
I love GDW's contribution to gaming over the years, but one fundamental problem they seemed to suffer is they were wargamers at heart. And this is one reason why Poland was really just a backdrop for a military game in the eyes of most players. That and the fact that the game naturally attracted people who (like me at that time) just wanted to ambush Soviet convoys. No sense playing up the parts of the game most people are just going to ignore.
 
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omnipus
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Re: Questions for those who have read the rules

Thu 31 Dec 2020, 02:33

Yeah, probably. They made up for it, sorta, in modules over time. Many of those spend much more time dealing with the reality of Poland as a place and entity. And yet with the release of new editions, the basic background material from the modules has not been incorporated into the core books!
Author, Central Poland Sourcebook -- now available on DriveThruRPG
 
godhelpme89
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Re: Questions for those who have read the rules

Sat 09 Jan 2021, 22:32

For my part, I am much less interested in fighting the Soviets as a theme than in surviving the collapse, because I've changed since the original game. I am much more interested nowadays in how ordinary people (including civilians) cope and fare in the gameworld than I am in playing out repeated ambushes of Soviet convoys. And I think the new edition does a great job of supporting that style of play.

(Although I think you really do need a more solid idea of Poland as something other than a sand table to play on, which has been a problem in all editions.)

By the way, Op Reset was in 1E. It appears as a subplot in The Free City of Krakow.
Thanks this is exactly what I was hoping for when I saw they were rebooting the game.
Thanks to everyone for posting, seems like this is something I’ll have to pick up when it releases.

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