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The French Army 1989 - ???
I am cross-posting here the information I have on what the French army might have been like in the TW:2000 universe. My personal experience was limited to the initial tests ("les trois jours") since I got deferrments up to the point when conscription was definitely stopped.
Let us start with the link to the FB page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/twiligh ... 4476720900, which is the detailed (30 odd pages), generic ORBAT for wargames I have posted on a couple of other forums, describing the French army in its latest (1984-1989) incarnation. On top of "macro" information, it has the detailed structure (down to sidearms) of a French infantry platoon (section) at the time.
One point I would like to insist on is that the French had a large, autonomous, nuclear strike force, with 6 SSBNs (each with 16 MIRVed missiles ...). So firing nukes on French soil would have triggered some pretty drastic retaliation.
Then, what happened in the real world: France fielded an adhoc division (division Daguet) during the First Gulf War, then participated in peacekeeping missions that grew seriously hot in Bosnia (there were some firefights with Serbian forces), a highly controversial mission in Rwanda (Rwanda accuses French forces of having at least implicitly encouraged the genocide, which the French army of course denies), and then missions in Kosovo, Afghanistan, and, more recently, the Sahel region.
Of course, the end of the Cold War meant a serious reduction in budgets, so that old equipment (Gazelle choppers, VAB APCs, AMX 30 ....) were kept in service in modernized versions, and new equipment (the Leclerc MBT, Tigre combat helicopters) was purchased in much, much lower numbers than had been planned. French infantry did receive new weapons: the ERYX short range AT missile, AT-4CS Swedish made AT rocket launcher for enclosed spaces, the Minimi SAW, and more modern versions of the Milan (in recent years). The French army turned many of its divisions into brigades, as it became a professional force.
Indeed, the conscription system was also gradually phased out, by expanding the possibility for deferment, reducing the duration of service. Proponents of conscription insisted that this was an essential way to keep some sort of crucible of national unity, help those who had had less oppportunity (for instance, it was customary for people to take their driver's test - otherwise a very expensive proposition for working class youths - during their military service), and keep a check on possible military coups - one such coup by far-right paratroopers against De Gaulle at the end of the Algerian War was foiled when conscripts refused to follow suit.
The army brass, on the other end, was not thrilled to have to babysit large numbers of semi-qualified youths (which required a huge bureaucracy financed on its budget), who did not have the skills required for modern warfare, and would need to be trained from scratch. They were quite happy to be able to refocus their limited resources on a professional force, à la British Army - which the current French army is. The other point was that the system was, in practice, everything but egalitarian: it was quite easy for people engaged in a long course of study - like yours truly - to get deferrments or to go work for French companies abroad (there was a type of "civil" military service). Military service was relatively short towards the end, and seen as a rite of passage, replete with really dumb hazing rituals (like covering the new recruits' genitals in shoe polish), and "bidasse" (conscript) movies were a crass sub-genre of low-brow comedy. A friend of mine who was a VAB driver in Berlin in 1994 told me that conscripts were not allowed to fire the 12.7 mm HMGs mounted on some VABs, which tells you how trusted they had become at that point .....
Of course, this happened because the USSR collapsed. We can only guess, but the hardliner's successful coup would have led - IMHO - to a resurrection (of sorts) of the 1989 model army, and the keeping in place (and increasing the duration of the service). So we likely would have seen the Leclerc deployed in much larger numbers (the final number ordered was a third of initial plans ....), and the corps / division system, meant for fighting in Western Europe, kept in some way. I will try to find more data on what was planned to give you an idea, as well as more data on how the ERYX and AT-4 CS were deployed (platoon level? company level?).
Now, the schools:
the French officer school is Saint Cyr (accessible after - you guessed it - a competitive exam). While it is possible to rise through the ranks, as a practical matter you'll be stuck at the Colonel level if you did not graduate from there. The best can then go on to the Ecole de Guerre (on the grounds of which my wargaming club meets ....) after a few years in the field. Training at Saint Cyr includes a stint at the notorious French jungle warfare training school in French Guyana;
there are also "Ecoles d'application" for the various branches, where officers and NCO's get more specialized training: Cavalry (i.e. tanks) at Saumur, engineering at Angers, infantry at Montpellier (at the time, now Draguignan), airborne troops at Pau .... plus the training centers of the various special forces, usually located with their barracks (Collioure for the fusiliers-marins commandos ....).
One point: contrary to what is stated in the TW:2000 books, France did have special forces (for instance, the 13e RDP was France's long distance recon unit, the Air commandoes are based next to Orléans). They were unified under one command structure (the COS - Spec Forces Command) but kept their identity and specialized training.

The French army has always been a source of headaches in wargames/RPG because much of what was written was confusing... (understatement).

Very good overview, thus merçi beaucoup!

My two cents. Older equipment would probably be kept in service even if the cold war continued. First even keeping with the initial orders for Leclerc would still have made its introduction relatively slow (production per month was still capped by industrial capacity), and, as all cutting edge vehicles, the program was slow for its own reason, not just budget reductions after 1990... plus with no downsize of the army there will be more regiment to be equipped anyway. Said that the AMX30B2 Brenus was still a respectable vehicle (now hopefully Normandie miniatures will put out their Brenus in 15mm!). Even the standard B2 was more than decent. I can see Armoured Division getting the Leclerc with priority to Armored regiments, and cascading the AMX30B2 down to mechanized regiments and then the infantry division (the infantry had still many AMX30 in 1989).

As for the Division thing... french division were smaller than other NATO division in the late part of the cold war, being actually big brigades (french regiments being 'fatty' battalions for other armies). It fit in their doctrine, and while smaller than other NATO units in their own intended role as NATO Reserve they worked well. They saved my line several time in NATO or GDW's Third World War. It is worth noting that Division Daguet was essential two French standard divisions.

Conscript vs professional... it is more complicated than usually people thinks. Professional (ie all volunteer) armies are not better than conscript by default. Let's face it young privates are the same just people fresh from training. And in a volunteer force after few years privates will have to move upward anyway. It requires youngsters to to be infantrymen anyway, it is not like the XIX century British Army where you had 45 years old privates. A professional army usually has a core of professional NCOs and officers. The Majority of NATO conscript armies fit that bill, including the French Army. Privates and corporals cycled, but the Sergeant, and WO were long term professionals. The Soviet on the other hand had no professional NCO class with all the issues. The British had all volunteer, a strong professional NCO class, an crap officer education system. At the time RMA Sandhurst (Royal Military Academy) was putting reserve officers out with less than 6 months training, regular with 9 month. It was a crap system (not my words... came from insider) and even today the situation is not improved (just all officers get 9 months). Compare it with West Point, Saint Cyr, the German approach. Finally there is the subject of reserves. Conscription creates a pool of trained people you can recall to duty. Handy for attrition. A 'professional' army will be spent in less than six month of high intensity warfare, and the new intakes will be progressively less trained. In the T2K settings conscript armies would have an edge in keeping effective units in the field. The US can draw on reserve and NG components, but the BA for example would be worn and in terminal decline in 6-7 month opposed to a French AdT that, while suffering losses, and probably being a different army after one year, but that could count on some sort of pipeline.

Volunteer armies looks attractive from a political standpoint because you remove the 'burden' of conscription from the electorate, and because they are contract soldiers there is less political cost for expeditionary deployments. On the other hand because you have long term chaps, you have to pay them more, and provide support (housing, family assistance) so it costs more. They are also extremely brittle because they have no real reserve pool (yes there are reserves, but usually government starve them of funds to offset the increase costs of active units...)

SSBN, 6 submarines means you have usually two on patrol at all time (naval rule of thumb, one ship out, one ship undergoing routing maintenance training, one in longer maintenance.). Still a credible deterrent.

One thing I hope for the new edition is that NATO held together, and no silliness of the French invading the Netherlands... also Francenever left NATO, just moved away from the integrated peacetime command structure.

By the way, I am painting some 15mm French troops and they are really nice. NEed to get some AMX30 shortly. Vive la France!

Hello Arrigo,

And thanks for your interest in Ze Gloriousse Frenche Armie!

If you are painting miniatures and play Third World War, definitely check out the detailed ORBAT: some of the information there never made it in most games (even the most recent NATO redux .... the counters were being printed), which means that the post-1983 French army is, well, wrong in almost all games (Janes had incorrect information ....): the French did a major reorganization in 1983 (effective between 1984 and 1985) which led to the 6 divisions blindées (1e, 2e, 3e, 5e, 7e, 10e DB) essentially doubling in size, with a total of 2 or 3 armored regiments (with one platoon of APC infantry per squadron), 2 mechanized regiments (for a total, including the tank companies of the mech regiments, of 171 or 191 tanks - instead of the 120 listed by Isby), 1 VAB/truck infantry regiment, 2 artillery regiments, one AT co, one Recon co, and one engineering regiment. That's basically two NATO brigades. Most of the other divisions kept a variation of the "large brigade" model (except the para division which actually had a brigade-type HQ). If you can't get to the document, email me and I'll send it to you.

Your points on professionalization are very well taken - a pleasure having a discussion with a specialist! I'll revert later with more thoughts on equipment.

NATO next edition... great game, I had the pleasure to play several test game on VASSAL with Bruce Maxwell in virtual person! And yes some information reached him too late on the printing process.

The French army is nice, often the target of plenty of British inspired bad jokes (but who in NATO is not the target of them? ). They also have a very good history. I have french forces for WW2 in 15mm, Indochina in 28mm, and WW3 and contemporary in 15mm and 6mm (and well Napoleonics...). Always felt original T2K did a disservice on the AdT.

I will definitely slough through your work... by the way any chance to get a non facebook link?

Best,
Arrigo

Just PM me your email and I will send you the Word file!