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Hi all, 

first time poster & FL backer here coming out of the deep fog to ask for guidance. I backed FL totally conquered by it's atmosphere, intriguing sandbox concepts, beautiful art and the respect that Fria Ligan's games received, so I wanted to see what's the fuss about.

But, once I received the first draft of the rules, I spotted what it seems to me like an elephant in the room. As the core system is similar to other games in the same "line", I guess many of you will be familiar with it so perhaps you can help me see what I am missing. 

While I love the brilliance of many rules bits, it seems to me that the core system would be very "heavy" at the table, here my 2 concerns:

- complexity of the main mechanic: it seems to me that each time you make a roll, you'll need to figure out how many dice of which type you will need to roll. Depending on the actual value of (possibly damaged) stats, skills used, various modifiers, gear involved, you will need to understand what to roll, physically pick up 3 different kind of dice in different numbers, roll them, interpret the results, decide wether to push (which you'll do often to get WP), roll again, interpret it. Isn't this very slow to be made each time you try to accomplish something relevant? Say, in combat (where you also need to account the dodge/parry roll and eventual armor rolls). So basically: isn't it very "slow"  making this calculations for every roll, every time different? Note that my players aren't dumb, I'm not saying it's difficult, I'm saying that doing it every roll will weight down game time;

- "messiness" of rolling tens of dice: I fear that rolling easily 10 or so dice, interpreting it, deciding what to do will not only make actions (and combat in particular) slow, but also messy with multiples dice laying around (tens of dice!) per player, colors getting mixed and so on. Doesn't this gets too "messy" at the table compared to, say, rolling one dice, addding modifiers and comparing it to a target number?

Now, I know that playing is different that reading, that's why I am asking. I really want to like this system but it seems to me that the ugly things that emerged when playing, say, Shadow of the Demon Lord (which I love...but IS complex and messy once you get some levels under the belt) would be even worst here.

Finally, a note: I am not saying the system is bad, I am just trying to understand if this system would be good or not for my playing group: we are all adults, very experienced with many different RPGs,  we play on friday night, quite tired after a week's work, and we want our RPG to run smooth and quick. 

We like some character personalization both from a story and system perspective (and this looks great in FL), so we rule out simplicistic systems,  but we also want a quick playing system, not bogging us down with infinite calculations around every corner...

Sell me on the system...or not! Am I missing something? it seems evident to me taht the whole system isn't meant to be "slow", but my old "DM" eyes tell me otherwise...

[old-guy rant] "You think 10 dice is a lot? Backl when I played a cthulhu-inspired monster in Hero-system, I needed 100+ dice for his damage rolls! [/old-guy rant]

Sorry, had to get that off my chest.

The thing I have experienced with this system (MY0, Coriolis) is that - apart from combat - most situations only require one player to make a roll.

Also, since pretty much the only thing you are looking for are the 6's, each roll is very quickly interpreted.

I agree that 10+ dice per player could be cluttering up the table. But I don't think that it will do so to a degree that makes it difficult to play.

The first time the players play it can be a bit hard to calculate the dices and interpret the results, but once the players learn the system and know about their abilities I don't feel that the system is any slower then other system. Since many rolls are only done by 1 player, except combat, it is also less roll per action then in other RPG (1 roll for Sneak instead of X rolls).

Also, in combat were you have an decided order of who is acting, the other players can prepare their action which means that it goes quite smoothly. The pushmechanism also make it a bit more exciting, it not only decide if you succeed (or succeed better), but it can also break you or your equipment.

Whats hard about the dice rolling?

If a player needs to do a skill roll he ...

* Pick up a number of "base dice" (white) equal to the current attribute score for the skill in question. This doesn't seem hard since the player should know his own attributes.
* Pick up a number of "Skill dice" (maroon) equal to your skill level of the skill in question. Most skills are between 0-3 and doesn't change during a session. A player should know this.
* Pick up a number of "Weapon/Gear dice" (black) equal to the Weapon/Gear bonus of any item that you are using. Usually between 0-2. You don't have that many "gears" and you hardly ever use more than one at the time so this shouldn't be that hard for the players to keep track of.

* Sometimes GM like to modify this. This is done by removing or adding "Skill dice". Although most skill rolls are unmodified.

Roll the dice. If any of the dice shows a "Crossed Sword" (6) you have succeeded. Some rolls are so called opposed rolls. In those cases the "defender" removes any success rolled by the "attacker". If the attacker still has any successes left he is successful with his skill. Most of the skill rolls only require one "Crossed Sword" to be rolled in order to succeed, but there are exceptions (but they are few). Not so much to interpret.

Sure it is more to if you push (and no, that is something that you do that much) but that is not that hard to interpret:
* If your Base dice show a "Bane" (1) then you will suffer a misery (injuries to your attributes is called that). More misery if you roll more "Banes".
* If your Weapon/Gear dice dice show a "Bane" then the Weapon/Gear bonus is reduced one level.
* Skill dice doesn't have "Banes".

Personally I don't see this so hard to do. I have played MYZ for years and it is one of the smoothest systems I know. You hardly roll more than 10 dice, most of the time you roll less.

But we are all different. Some people just doesn't like dice pool systems and for them I'm sorry but it has been known from the start of this KS that this game will use the MYZ game engine (and there are free quickstart rules out there).

There are enough chapters out in English so you can do some test battles. So do that. Create some basic characters and test the combat system. Combat is the most dice requiring in all games, so if you think that the combat is manageable then everything else is more manageable.

Well, it's a dice pool system, and big dice pools are a feature of such. As for the multiple dice types, there can only be a maximum of 6 base dice (based on attributes) and 10 equipment dice (full plate armour plus helmet). Skill dice equal skill ranks plus other modifiers, this will almost never be more than 8, but theoretically could be up to 12 (5 skill ranks, plus a tier 3 talent, plus max assistance from 3 players, plus situational modifiers).

So we're talking a maximum number of 2 dozen dice, and only for extremely competent skill rolls (5 attribute plus 5 skill rank) with the best equipment available.

However, most rolls (in my experience of MYZ) rarely have more than 10 dice in a pool. When players start getting to the bigger pools, their eyes light up with anticipation and its a matter of pride that they can bring so many dice to bear, so really IMO this is a big draw.

As for lots of dice at the table, for MYZ we had one set at each end of the table and we all shared. Worked fine, and the different types are easy enough to work out, since they're different colours.

You mention SotDL as getting to be more complex at higher levels, but I didn't find that (I ran a 6-month campaign with 6 players), and MYZ is certainly quicker and easier to grok than D&D. I guess it depends on your group's definition of "clunky".

I'm hugely interested in TTRPG mechanics. As someone who has Kickstarted over 100 games, has a huge library of RPGs and has more experience of playing and running over 20 handpicked, newer systems (not a huge number, but I'm picky and my group love D&D for some stupid reason), maybe my saying that I've chosen the Year Zero engine to run my own game can give you some confidence that it's a robust system that has just the right balance of crunchiness and narrative to satisfy most gamers.

Thanks for your comments & experience guys. I'll just have to try it out, I guess, and see if it is fit for us. Just to clarify: I'm not saying it is hard or bad, I just fear it will be slow. But, we can try it. If somebody else has experiences (good or bad!) I'll happily read. 

Not really wanting to discuss SoTdL here but hey, while I love many things about that system, we do find it slow and overly complicated in its calculations. It may just be that dice pool games are not our thing.

On the other hand, it's true that rolling one billion dice at once DOES have an element of satisfaction that can't be denied

And, it is true that the "roll once" thing is brilliant, as many other bits that I really like (initiative, encumbrance, resource dices, young-old scaling, talents...many things, really). It's the dice pool thing which is uncharted territory for us (apart for the SoTdL campaign, but I am unsure that fully qualifies).

Thanks for your comments & experience guys. I'll just have to try it out, I guess, and see if it is fit for us. Just to clarify: I'm not saying it is hard or bad, I just fear it will be slow. But, we can try it. If somebody else has experiences (good or bad!) I'll happily read. 

Not really wanting to discuss SoTdL here but hey, while I love many things about that system, we do find it slow and overly complicated in its calculations. It may just be that dice pool games are not our thing.

On the other hand, it's true that rolling one billion dice at once DOES have an element of satisfaction that can't be denied

And, it is true that the "roll once" thing is brilliant, as many other bits that I really like (initiative, encumbrance, resource dices, young-old scaling, talents...many things, really). It's the dice pool thing which is uncharted territory for us (apart for the SoTdL campaign, but I am unsure that fully qualifies).

SotDL isn't a dice pool game despite the d6 modifiers.  You're rolling a d20 with a pool of modifer dice and calculating the result against a target number.  This is a very different beast, and much, much slower than simply looking for successes in a pool of dice.  Trust us, it is not slow at all once you start playing it (by the second or third session).

I'll take your(s) word and try it, thanks!

I had the same concern as Bremenno when reading the material but found that my players had no trouble with it at all. A key to that may be that everyone has their own set of dice so you can leave them in front of you after a roll. Combat being combat, you will remove dice from the strength pool as you get damage and so you don't need to recalculate in the next round. Just make sure everyone use the same colors for the different pools.

Single Page Character Sheet:
1. Four attributes that also represent your overall health.
2. Simple yet versatile set of skills.
3. Tiered talents, as opposed to numerous discrete talents.

Minimal Math:
1. Each roll consists of D6s equal to Attribute + Skill (modified) + Gear.
2. Modifiers are fixed (talents) or situational (typically none or +/-1).
3. You make one roll per action (no separate roll for damage or modifying the result with bonuses/penalties).
4. You count dice that rolled a 6.
5. Damage is fixed (weapon) plus successes.

Sensible Fumbles:
1. You only risk a “fumble” if you decide to push your roll (it’s not arbitrary and represents taking risk for greater reward).
2. If you pushed your roll and have dice that rolled a 1, then the color of the dice indicates the fumble result (stressed yourself or damaged your gear).
3. Skill dice ignore results of 1, which means more skilled characters are less likely to fumble.

Simple & Versatile Damage:
1. “Hit points”, “wound modifiers”, and “type of damage” are all combined into Attribute reductions.
2. If you roll multiple successes, instead of just inflicting more damage you can chose to perform stunts (a maneuver, subdue/disarm opponent, etc).

Simple & Versatile Skills
1. Since you can chose how to spend successes, each skill allows multiple types of actions (stunts), so you can do many things with a few skills.
2. Talents typical enhance a skill or make a skill even more versatile.