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Just had a player spend the entire session (our first) without getting Willpower Points from pushing rolls. Could not use magic during the whole session. Any advice on how to deal with problematic Random Number Generation?
They were also asking how they managed to learn magic (with no other magic users in the starting community) and how they had managed to practise their spells if they have never had any Willpower Points before?
I am still learning Forbidden Lands, but cannot find anything relevant in the core books.
All the players are new to the Forbidden Lands system and found the “hurt yourself” to gain Willpower Points rather strange / different. Although one session isn't enough to thoroughly explore the Rules As Written.

The players need to spread out the skill rolls among PCs, not only so everyone has a chance to make skill roll with the potential of gaining WP, but also so everyone feels that they are participating in the game. In order to gain WP the PCs needs to do difficult things (so they have to push). The first session or two can be a bit slow on the WP front because the players are new and their characters are new.
Eventually the PCs will have a good flow of WP. It can take some time to find the sweet spot of doing dangerous and difficult things, spreading out the various skill rolls and survive.

When it comes to starter characters, they are not new in their profession, the reason they start with zero WP is a balancing thing. In their life before character generation, they had WP, they used WP and they lost WP.

This is a wild magic system, magic exists all around. For spellcasters, WP (is like Qi) is a measurement of their inner power to tap into this magic.

Our first Total Party Kill this century.
Firstly, thanks to Fenhorn for his comments. I took the “so everyone feels that they are participating in the game” to heart and asked about this, everyone was happy with their participation and the opportunities to push their skills (or not; as in no benefit or reason for pushing the successful roll) in the first session. In our first session everyone had made at least one pushed roll, with two players making three pushed rolls. Of the four players only the druid had not gained any Willpower Points. We also looked at starter characters again – following the “When it comes to starter characters, they are not new in their profession...” and noted that, as per the rules, all the adventurers “have learned a thing or two before the game begins.” Which led to a nice background building discussion. The druid accepted he'd likely get Willpower just through play as intended, though (after checking he was quoting accurately) said, “I never get my hopes up, so I never get let down.” The woodland by the river was described as a gloomy place and somewhat boggy and sad. Far too may Winnie-the-Pooh references, with detours to the Moomins, were made.
So. Eventually the wolves attack. Four in total, the alpha a standard wolf, though mangy (page 126, Gamemaster's Guide). The other three were scrawny, malnourished and unhealthy; STR 3 and AGI 2. The druid, acting first, attempts to climb onto the trunk of a fallen tree, fails, pushes, still fails, but gets a Willpower Point; AGI reduced to 2. The first wolf to act then attacks the rogue. The rogue (already injured) is Broken immediately and has a Bleeding thigh. The fighter and hunter turn on the wolf about to savage the fallen rogue and kill it. The alpha wolf and another wolf attack the fighter and hunter, injuring both of them. The final wolf doesn't actually attack, skirting round to line up a pounce on the druid. Next round the druid is first again, gets to the fallen rogue, grabs clay from his pouch and casts Healing Hands on the fallen rogue: a magic mishap – force of the magic breaks bones in his body – blunt force critical, crushed skull, dead. The rogue staggers up, still acting last in the round, though. The hunter and the fighter both go down, Broken: a severed arm and severed leg between them. The last wolf attacks the rogue and injures him. The rogue tries to escape up into the branches of a tree, fails, pushes, fails. Next round the three wolves finish him, his ear is severed. TPK.
(There were attempted dodges, etc. The Dodge at -2, to remain standing, but +2 as the wolf attack is a Slash mechanic was well liked by everyone.)
Interesting enough, and statistically unlikely, not a single Armor Rating roll reduced any damage. With the fighter having Studded Leather this should have been a 42% chance for one successful Armor Rating roll per check. So it was Armor Rating and not Willpower that acted up Random Number Generation wise this session.
Of the new adventurers not a single one is a magic user.

I start to think that you are goofing with me or you're using the rules wrong or you just happen to have the most unlucky group of players ever.

I played Mutant: Year Zero (an apocalypse sci-fi game similar to this) for four years and I played Forbidden Lands for two years and only two characters died.

You seems to have the most extreme results that this kind of games can have, all in one session. Sure, I guess it can happen. Some of these bad lucks can also be the result of players making really bad choices.

Some points to think about.

• The players should know the fleeing rule (p.89) because:
  "He who fights and runs away lives to run away another day"

• Magic is wild, which means that, even though it always succeeds, the player must roll a die for each Power Level they want to cast in order to see if the spell increases in PL (+ for each 6 rolled) or if there is a mishap (any 1 rolled). In important thing here is that it is up to the player to decide how safe (i.e. less wild) his spells are. Power Levels from Ingredients doesn't count for this, they are always safe. He might also be able to use other means to make the spells safer to cast (p.118). If non of these are available, he should try minimize his spell-casting and only cast spells when he needs to and then he should try to use low PL if possible.

• When it comes to bringing friends back up when they are broken, then the Healing skill is usually a much better choice than spells. Sure, you need to make a skill roll but Healing is a skill that many PCs should be decent in, especially the druid (since he tends to be a bit of a support character). The skill is safe to use and even if you push it is usually okay if the character has a high Empathy score and pushing the skill can generate WP. Using spell to bring someone back up from being broken should only be done as a last resort since spell-casting is a risk (unless you can safe-cast it).

• In combat, players should be careful when they push a skill. Attacks with Melee can backfire if pushed if you roll to many 1s. Pushing is necessary in YZE-games, but should be done with caution. Pushing while dodging is usually not as risky since it uses an Agility skill, not a Strength skill. This means that all character should have at least a decent score in the Move skill, not only because you dodge with it, you also flee with it.

• Fight defensively, especially if you fight better foes than you but even then. This means that they need to save an action so they can defend themselves properly if there are enemies left in the round that hasn't acted yet.

Thank you Fenhorn

>> I start to think that you are goofing with me or you're using the rules wrong or you just happen to have the most unlucky group of players ever.

Why would I be goofing with you? I very must appreciate the time and effort to put in on these forums and your comments on my first post were very well received by everyone.
We did run a combat test to shake down the rules as a sort of session zero and easily came through without anyone getting Broken. Dodging to avoid damage and Armor Rating soaking points of damage worked as hoped for. I made more detailed notes this time and the Armor Rating rolls were especially, as you say, unlucky. (But we've also had, in Shadowdark, the maximum damage for Fireball rolled twice in a row and a sequence of character creation stats rolls (3d6) that went 18,17,16,15,13,12! The dice are the dice and some, over the years, have been forcibly “retired”.)

>> I played Mutant: Year Zero (an apocalypse sci-fi game similar to this) for four years and I played Forbidden Lands for two years and only two characters died.

>> You seems to have the most extreme results that this kind of games can have, all in one session. Sure, I guess it can happen. Some of these bad lucks can also be the result of players making really bad choices.

Agreed. But if the chance is there in the RAW it will, eventually, happen somewhere to someone. Hopefully we've got all our bad luck out of the way now; there must be an Eeyore quote for that. What I'd like to make sure is that we get the best advice on avoiding player and GM “bad choices”; unless necessary to the story or to the character, in which case they are not actually “bad.”

>> Some points to think about.
The players should know the fleeing rule (p.89) because:
"He who fights and runs away lives to run away another day"

They considered it. What I thought would be an easy refuge on the fallen tree or climbing up into the trees to escape didn't happen. The druid was cloaked and hooded (it was raining, another Eeyore reference; just a single cloud...) so his companions asked if they could – in the heat of combat – see if he was dead or just unconscious and, not knowing he was dead, stayed to fight for him.

>> Magic is wild, which means that, even though it always succeeds, the player must roll a die for each Power Level they want to cast in order to see if the spell increases in PL (+ for each 6 rolled) or if there is a mishap (any 1 rolled). In important thing here is that it is up to the player to decide how safe (i.e. less wild) his spells are. Power Levels from Ingredients doesn't count for this, they are always safe. He might also be able to use other means to make the spells safer to cast (p.118). If non of these are available, he should try minimize his spell-casting and only cast spells when he needs to and then he should try to use low PL if possible.

The druid's player was excited to finally be able to cast a spell. Literally the first Willpower point they ever had, first in-game spell they had ever cast. And the chance for a magic mishap was 1 in 6.

>> When it comes to bringing friends back up when they are broken, then the Healing skill is usually a much better choice than spells. Sure, you need to make a skill roll but Healing is a skill that many PCs should be decent in, especially the druid (since he tends to be a bit of a support character). The skill is safe to use and even if you push it is usually okay if the character has a high Empathy score and pushing the skill can generate WP. Using spell to bring someone back up from being broken should only be done as a last resort since spell-casting is a risk (unless you can safe-cast it).

That I put down to our lack of experience with the system. Using a spell as a last resort: Forbidden Lands magic seems to be “mad, bad and dangerous to know” and we are finding it different (not bad) and have not, I think, got to grips with it properly yet.

>> In combat, players should be careful when they push a skill. Attacks with Melee can backfire if pushed if you roll to many 1s. Pushing is necessary in YZE-games, but should be done with caution. Pushing while dodging is usually not as risky since it uses an Agility skill, not a Strength skill. This means that all character should have at least a decent score in the Move skill, not only because you dodge with it, you also flee with it.

They are definitely looking at how to Move, Flee and Dodge more effectively. Even so the in play Dodges failed and they didn't want to push the Dodge and risk a lower Agility on the next Dodge roll; thus the caution, as you note. Again, as with the Armor Rating rolls, the Dodge rolls went very poorly.

>> Fight defensively, especially if you fight better foes than you but even then. This means that they need to save an action so they can defend themselves properly if there are enemies left in the round that hasn't acted yet.

We thought that a fast action Dodge without going prone was the best possible defensive move available. The wolves wouldn't get a +2 to attack a prone character and they would preserve their fast action for dodging each round: as when prone it is a fast action to get up and then another fast action to dodge, if needed – so no attack that round. Hopefully we're reading the rules correctly here. Are there examples online of good (and bad) combat I should be looking at?.

And none of us are giving up on Forbidden Lands just because the dice have been unkind.

Thank you for your reply.

I know that sometimes things just happens.

When we alpha-tested FbL, I wanted to introduce how a spell-caster battle could work. I had two players at this alpha-test (a druid and a hunter) and the they where up against a witch-doctor (just a fancy name for a sorcerer). We use stones that is sometimes used in some card games for counting mana as WP stones. I saw that the druid had about 4 stones, so I cast a PL4+1 (real PL plus torch PL) Immolate at the hunter. Sounds harsh, yes, but I wanted the druid to feel that this is so serious so he had to Dispel it and not just let the hunter burn. I was at least nice by telling the players how many PLs I was about to cast (the players can't normally know that). I rolled 4 sixes, which means that my Immolate just became PL9 not PL4. Oops. The players did declare to use Dispel PL3 and didn't roll a single 6 (or 1). So much for introducing magic battle to the players.

In our Raven's Purge campaign a PC got hit by a sword. This PC had chain 6 plus a helmet 6, for a total of 8 AR. You are suppose to roll all the dice together but feel it a bit more entertaining to roll for the chainmail first, all six dice failed to reduce the damage. Now he rolls 2 dice for the helmet and he got a two 6s perfectly deflected the sword hit. This happen twice in the same combat. In another combat the fancy fighter with an armour of 10 in total had a his armour down to 2 in total after the battle.

Sometimes just things happens. Luckily, even if the chance to go down can be high in this game, the chance to die is actually not that high. As long as at least someone survives it is usually ok and even if a PC die, it doesn't take that long to create a now PC.

>> …. I rolled 4 sixes, which means that my Immolate just became PL9 not PL4. Oops. The players did declare to use Dispel PL3 and didn't roll a single 6 (or 1). So much for introducing magic battle to the players.

The collective reaction, having got together after the Easter holiday, was a “Wow!” So the Dispel would have reduced the PL of the Immolate to 5, and the druid cannot push the roll for their Dispel, as you never fail at casting a spell; or use Pride.

Having realised we totally forgot to consider using Pride in our TPK session we did take a look at if it could be used with magic, which in RAW it cannot. Given that Pride is a single use per game session a “kind” GM might allow a house rule to that effect, or not.

Armor Rating and other Gear: we do like it that a high AR can and will decline, that Gear and weapons do get damaged and break. (Seen it happen during re-enactment events and history is full of examples.) Although seeing your AR reduced from 10 to 2 in a single battle must have been rough.

>> Sometimes just things happens. Luckily, even if the chance to go down can be high in this game, the chance to die is actually not that high. As long as at least someone survives it is usually ok and even if a PC die, it doesn't take that long to create a now PC.

Agreed. And it is not just the probability crunching in FbL, the Coup De Grace rule and the guidance on Broken and fallen PCs (and for some NPCs and Monsters) it is quite clear that the intent is that they can and will survive. Which, in my opinion, makes for better role-playing opportunities.

As ever, thank you for your comments Fenhorn

I think it is easier to read if you use quote button when quoting someone, it will make it easier to read. Just a suggestion.