Hello one and all! I'm hoping some history buff/former service members can help me with a couple of questions I have about a SEAL character I wish to make for a Twilight 2000 campaign/possible story....
So, if I wanted to make an E5 or E6 SEAL in the 'WW3 that never was".....I BELIEVE the rating of SW (Special Warfare Operator) did not exist until the early 2000s.....so if my character was in the U.S. Navy of the 1990s and became a SEAL, as I understand it....would the following scenario work....
A: I think all SEALs back then (and perhaps still today?) were at least an E4, meaning they already had a tour 'in the books' in a different MOS.....so, if my character had worked on small boats; he'd have been an SB3 when he applied for and was admitted into the SEAL training program.....is this correct/make sense?
B: After passing the training and becoming part of a Team.....would he still be an SB? (now SB2 or SB1 for E5/E6 rank)
Thanks all in advance!
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- paladin2019
- Posts: 446
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Re: SEAL questions....
SEALs were also recruited off the street and at boot camp. Initial training -> A school -> BUD/S. The feeder MOSs are skillsets that reduce training time on the SEAL side in those specific jobs and keeping in "SEAL shape" at A School is gut check before BUD/S. (I had a friend who was recruited off the street and got married en route to A school; he plain noped out of the pipeline.) In game terms, however, I would say do the normal character generation procedure of one term in another MOS category before Special Operations regardless of how, narratively, your character's timeline shakes out.
Re: SEAL questions....
Thanks, I appreciate that...but I wasn't really meaning 'in game terms'...but rather, what was the process in the 1990s? I.e. would an E6 SEAL in say, 1998, be listed as SB1 Schmuckatelli?
Does anyone know?
Does anyone know?
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- paladin2019
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Re: SEAL questions....
I think by '98 they might be SB(SW)1 or SB1(SW) or the like. Unsure when the changes occurred and how they were implemented in the rank abbreviations..
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- Midnightplat
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Re: SEAL questions....
Open source indicates 2006 is when SWCC got the SB designations. Prior to '06 SWCC got NSW ratings and used regular Navy titles. SWCC didn't become formally "closed loop" from the regular Navy until '96 (but may have had an informal culture of retaining members rather than rotating out), and a need for what would become the SB designations was recognized, but it took a decade including a half decade of a much higher operational tempo for the Navy to finally set out the SB.
Of course the 90s in T2K weren't our 90s, so who knows what definitively would have happened since the country was more on a path to "total war" in 2TK than the more SOCOM intensive warfare that's marked the U.S. military of the 21st century.
Mechanically, the YZE T2K lifepath I think does a good job creating "regular military" character. The Special Operations life path options are a little thin, but I think understandably balanced to not tip the scales too against other characters who don't get SOCOM exposure (modern gaming lifepaths tend to frown on wildcard boons to stats and skills). The RDF Sourcebook for the original T2K was where you'd find the options for Special Operations backgrounds, and they were much more formidably skilled than your regular T2K soldier. Part of that's because the IRL pipelines for operators take literal years longer than regular military (except maybe SWCC prior to 96?). This isn't represented well in the present T2K lifepath, but the skill system isn't granular enough for it to ultimately matter. Plus it allows you to play a SEAL, a PJ, or a Green Beret pretty much on say so if you land the block in character generation.
In saying all that, I think it's pretty much up to your individual table what ranks or titles a character might have had before coming on a SEAL team. As for your question about whether the character would still be SB or NSW equivalent after making it through SEAL training. No, that's no different than no longer being an MP after becoming a Ranger, if that makes sense. You're your present job. What you used to be might've helped get you there, but it's not you.
Of course the 90s in T2K weren't our 90s, so who knows what definitively would have happened since the country was more on a path to "total war" in 2TK than the more SOCOM intensive warfare that's marked the U.S. military of the 21st century.
Mechanically, the YZE T2K lifepath I think does a good job creating "regular military" character. The Special Operations life path options are a little thin, but I think understandably balanced to not tip the scales too against other characters who don't get SOCOM exposure (modern gaming lifepaths tend to frown on wildcard boons to stats and skills). The RDF Sourcebook for the original T2K was where you'd find the options for Special Operations backgrounds, and they were much more formidably skilled than your regular T2K soldier. Part of that's because the IRL pipelines for operators take literal years longer than regular military (except maybe SWCC prior to 96?). This isn't represented well in the present T2K lifepath, but the skill system isn't granular enough for it to ultimately matter. Plus it allows you to play a SEAL, a PJ, or a Green Beret pretty much on say so if you land the block in character generation.
In saying all that, I think it's pretty much up to your individual table what ranks or titles a character might have had before coming on a SEAL team. As for your question about whether the character would still be SB or NSW equivalent after making it through SEAL training. No, that's no different than no longer being an MP after becoming a Ranger, if that makes sense. You're your present job. What you used to be might've helped get you there, but it's not you.
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- Gilamunsta
- Posts: 9
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Re: SEAL questions....
Just barely starting to hit the forums, so I'm playing catch- up =)Open source indicates 2006 is when SWCC got the SB designations. Prior to '06 SWCC got NSW ratings and used regular Navy titles. SWCC didn't become formally "closed loop" from the regular Navy until '96 (but may have had an informal culture of retaining members rather than rotating out), and a need for what would become the SB designations was recognized, but it took a decade including a half decade of a much higher operational tempo for the Navy to finally set out the SB.
Of course the 90s in T2K weren't our 90s, so who knows what definitively would have happened since the country was more on a path to "total war" in 2TK than the more SOCOM intensive warfare that's marked the U.S. military of the 21st century.
Mechanically, the YZE T2K lifepath I think does a good job creating "regular military" character. The Special Operations life path options are a little thin, but I think understandably balanced to not tip the scales too against other characters who don't get SOCOM exposure (modern gaming lifepaths tend to frown on wildcard boons to stats and skills). The RDF Sourcebook for the original T2K was where you'd find the options for Special Operations backgrounds, and they were much more formidably skilled than your regular T2K soldier. Part of that's because the IRL pipelines for operators take literal years longer than regular military (except maybe SWCC prior to 96?). This isn't represented well in the present T2K lifepath, but the skill system isn't granular enough for it to ultimately matter. Plus it allows you to play a SEAL, a PJ, or a Green Beret pretty much on say so if you land the block in character generation.
In saying all that, I think it's pretty much up to your individual table what ranks or titles a character might have had before coming on a SEAL team. As for your question about whether the character would still be SB or NSW equivalent after making it through SEAL training. No, that's no different than no longer being an MP after becoming a Ranger, if that makes sense. You're your present job. What you used to be might've helped get you there, but it's not you.
Basically, prior to 2006, a Sailor would be whatever his rating was, i.e. a Corpsman would be an HM3 (SEAL), and a Hull Technician would be HT3 (SEAL). Also, in the T2K timeline, OP can fudge the Combat Arms requirement as the Navy did not have what is considered Combat Arms outside of the Special Warfare Operators, the closest being a Gunner's Mate (GM). The majority of Operators came out of (in T2K terms) Combat Support and Combat Service Support - and no, there weren't any cooks who were Seals... lol
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- paladin2019
- Posts: 446
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Re: SEAL questions....
Or the character directly accesses as a SEAL in their first term, the same as a ranger.fudge the Combat Arms requirement
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