Hemlocks
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Poison...no effect on monster???

Thu 03 Nov 2022, 15:40

Reading the rules, as written, it would seem that poisons have NO effect on monsters. Why is this the case? It would seem, unless killinkg other players is your characters goals, that poison should be allowed to harm monsters. These rules are....dumb in a rpg game.
 
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Fenhorn
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Re: Poison...no effect on monster???

Thu 03 Nov 2022, 15:51

The four poisons in the core game affects attributes and are not really compatible with the attributes for monsters. Take a paralyzing poison for example, should that really work against a six meter giant. If you allow these poisons against monsters it can be so that monsters are more affected by them than an ordinary human.
"Thanks for noticing' me." - Eeyore
 
JohnWithAgun
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Re: Poison...no effect on monster???

Thu 03 Nov 2022, 17:10

The game master decides the effect of various poisons on various monsters is properly a better rule/solution.
 
Hemlocks
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Re: Poison...no effect on monster???

Thu 03 Nov 2022, 17:20

The four poisons in the core game affects attributes and are not really compatible with the attributes for monsters. Take a paralyzing poison for example, should that really work against a six meter giant. If you allow these poisons against monsters it can be so that monsters are more affected by them than an ordinary human.
Yes, various degrees of poisons should be able to work on a 6 meter long giant. Why not??? We us poison in real life to take down all sorts of creatures..including humans
 
Hemlocks
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Re: Poison...no effect on monster???

Thu 03 Nov 2022, 17:22

The game master decides the effect of various poisons on various monsters is properly a better rule/solution.
I agree. But to just say will not work is rather dumb. Considering magic that weakens or sickens monsters is allowed, poison should also work.
 
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Fenhorn
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Re: Poison...no effect on monster???

Thu 03 Nov 2022, 18:15

The four poisons in the core game affects attributes and are not really compatible with the attributes for monsters. Take a paralyzing poison for example, should that really work against a six meter giant. If you allow these poisons against monsters it can be so that monsters are more affected by them than an ordinary human.
Yes, various degrees of poisons should be able to work on a 6 meter long giant. Why not??? We us poison in real life to take down all sorts of creatures..including humans
The way poisons work in the game is not compatible with the stats and how monsters work. One dose of a poison for a human wouldn't exactly be one dose for a giant.

Sure, you can house rule this in your game if you think it is worth the time. If allowed as is, it would weaken monsters quite a lot.
"Thanks for noticing' me." - Eeyore
 
JohanR
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Re: Poison...no effect on monster???

Thu 03 Nov 2022, 19:10

I made an easy to use house rule, if the poison feels like it could affect the monster, it takes 1 damage for each rolled 6 on the Potency dice. No ongoing damage. The damage is always directed at Strength, regardless of poison type. So a dragon would need more poison than what is feasible to get, but some amounts of poison might still affect it, making it more sluggish and having other attacks connecting more, etc, when in a fight.

It makes poisons kind of poor against monsters, but still better than nothing.
 
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Konungr
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Re: Poison...no effect on monster???

Fri 04 Nov 2022, 02:53

So most monsters lack a wits or empathy score. Those poisons either have no effect or would otherwise instantly break monsters.

Agility generally doesn't exceed Kin norms. So, somewhere from 2-6 rounds and the creature would be broken. Neutralizing all monsters.

But they roll Endurance right? So is that 12-36 strength of dice? The system starts to break down. And that goes to the lethal poisons with the same and different issues. What are you rolling to resist? What is lethal poison to a creature with 40 health? How does a lethal poison effect a Hydra with multiple health bars for each head?
 
JohanR
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Re: Poison...no effect on monster???

Fri 04 Nov 2022, 11:33

Was this an answer to my reply? If so you misunderstood it.

"So most monsters lack a wits or empathy score. Those poisons either have no effect or would otherwise instantly break monsters. Agility generally doesn't exceed Kin norms. So, somewhere from 2-6 rounds and the creature would be broken. Neutralizing all monsters." --> Averted as I said all damage is redirected to Strength.

"But they roll Endurance right? So is that 12-36 strength of dice?" --> No, they do not roll Endurance. Just roll the Potency Dice, deal 1 damage to Strength per rolled "6". If it is not a lethal poison the monster maybe acts infinitesimally more sluggish, causing you to land another hit. So Strength damage is not really Strength damage, it is just a representation of how much effort (hit points) left for you to take it down.

"What is lethal poison to a creature with 40 health?" --> It is just not lethal, just stomach cramps or a slight feeling of pain, rash or sickness. Just because accidentally sleeping on some kind of fire ant hill might not be lethal to us humans, it might still be inconvenient to deal a Strength damage to us? If they somehow could bite through the armor rating of something with 40 Strength it would still be 90% less inconvenient then to a Human with Strength 4?

"How does a lethal poison effect a Hydra with multiple health bars for each head?" --> It is still damage, so the Hydra gets affected just be any damage. The damage can therefor be dealt to any head, but probably the head you hit, as any effects are more likley to spread from there. You could also say that as Hydras are so poisonous themselves, so that they could be immune, but you don't have to!

All in all, this is kind of how lethal poisons would affect monsters if they were allowed to in the rules. You would then, roll potency, the monster would then automatically win their Endurance roll without rolling, then according to the rules for poison (PHB 113): "If you win the roll, you only suffer the limited effect of the poison" --> "LIMITED EFFECT: You take one point of damage to Strength". So monsters do not roll Endurance, i.e. always winning, i.e taking 1 damage to Strength.
 
JohnWithAgun
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Re: Poison...no effect on monster???

Fri 04 Nov 2022, 11:52

What is lethal poison to a creature with 40 health?
sorry this hit my inner nerd :)
player handbook states a round is anywhere between 10 seconds to 1 minute.
So best case it would kill it in 40 minutes. A poison that can kill a human in 40min would be considered very lethal :)

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