Fria Ligans forum

I don't think people realize how good skill dice are. They cannot hurt you when you push rolls. They are (besides artifact dice) the best dice in the game. When NPCs start smashing through the players defenses because they are just flat out better than them the players are going to start worrying about those low Skill ranks.

This is true. But most often a combat focusen talent will give you one die extra at rank 1 and that die acts as a skill die. So if they can buy, lets say, 2 talents that focus on their attacks they basically getts 2 skill dice at the cost of 6 XP. A lower cost than the skill increase from 1 to 2 in a skill. And then, at just 12 more points, they also get 2 artifact dice as well... much better than raising skills. Of course, only up to a point, where talents won’t get you any further.

I don't think people realize how good skill dice are. They cannot hurt you when you push rolls. They are (besides artifact dice) the best dice in the game. When NPCs start smashing through the players defenses because they are just flat out better than them the players are going to start worrying about those low Skill ranks.

This is true. But most often a combat focusen talent will give you one die extra at rank 1 and that die acts as a skill die. So if they can buy, lets say, 2 talents that focus on their attacks they basically getts 2 skill dice at the cost of 6 XP. A lower cost than the skill increase from 1 to 2 in a skill. And then, at just 12 more points, they also get 2 artifact dice as well... much better than raising skills. Of course, only up to a point, where talents won’t get you any further.

You are not wrong. But you will always get those talent skill dice as situational. X type of weapon. Versus Monsters. In specific circumstances they will get to stack but it's going to get progressively harder to get them to stack, and the more the players push the more likely they are to smash that weapon they put those talents in.
I am not, at all, saying talents are weak. I am just saying skills are in fact better. They don't LOOK it at first glance. (Hence the issue where players constantly focus on Talents) But they are.

If you want to discourage players from focusing on talents then don't encourage them to take them by making them cheaper than skills.

10x rank is a VERY high cost. 20 Exp just to get to rank 2 is basically insanity. The players should be able to do something once every couple sessions not once every 4-5 just to reach rank 2 in a skill. or 20 sessions to go from 4-5.

I don't know, with a maximum skill rank being 5, effectively some legendary achievement in itself, I don't think it should be something that players can achieve in a couple of sessions - maybe a few extraordinary adventures yes, but I think it should be something that they really have to work for to achieve.

As discussed in this thread skills are better overall than talents, as they count for every use of that skill, rather than some talents which only work with certain weapons, certain situations etc, so I think their cost should reflect that. Starting with a level 1 skill, it would cost 20 to get to rank 2, another 30 to get to 3, 40 to get level 4 and another 50 to get to level 5, so a total XP cost of 140 to reach the maximum possible skill level...

Is that too high? considering you could potentially get 10 XP from a 'perfect' session.. And yes, I know that's assuming you spend all your XP on that one skill..

I know you probably only usually get maybe 4-5 XP from a session, but I think that stopping the PCs advancing quickly is easier than having to increase the skills and talents of all of the NPCs in the game to keep them from seeming too weak when the players show up and bitch slap them around.

You would need 14 perfect sessions or 3 1/2 months of game time doing nothing but raising a single skill to reach rank 5. At the average 5 exp a game thats 7 months of play playing every week. To get 4 skill points.

You would need 14 perfect sessions or 3 1/2 months of game time doing nothing but raising a single skill to reach rank 5. At the average 5 exp a game thats 7 months of play playing every week. To get 4 skill points.

LOL.. Play more?

Or maybe (as possibly suggested earlier) just have both skills and talents at 5 XP each level multiplier..

Also, maybe i am missing it, but where in the book does it say maximum skill rank is 5? Pretty sure that comes from another Free League game. Coriolis maybe? Forbidden Lands has no max skill cap.

Also, maybe i am missing it, but where in the book does it say maximum skill rank is 5? Pretty sure that comes from another Free League game. Coriolis maybe? Forbidden Lands has no max skill cap.

Player's Handbook p.32 Skills

They are measured by skill level on a scale from 0 to 5.

Ah yeah, there it is. ::Shrugs:: while we are house ruling I figure there really aren't any consequences to ditching that too. If a player wants to raise a skill to 6 it's 1 more dice for 30 exp. Let them.