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Re: Parrying
Posted: Wed 31 Jan 2018, 16:10
by Maliloki
If it takes an action to draw a weapon, it should absolutely take an action to do the more time consuming thing (and the thing that leaves you more defensively exposed) of standing up
Re: Parrying
Posted: Wed 31 Jan 2018, 16:11
by Fragpuss
I actually was a bit surprised that they didn't have a parrying knife in the mix (I have suggested that to them) and also that you can't parry with the staff. Scimitar should be a parrying weapon. It is just as much of a "fencing" weapon than the other swords. Two-handed sword, I don't know. My knowledge about two-handed swords and melee fighting is not as good as I would have hoped.
Yeah, I'd agree with that - main gauche / sword-breaker / parrying dagger would be great to see added.
I also find 1H maces and warhammers an odd choice. Certainly they can be used to parry, but I wouldn't think they are especially notable for that ability. I mean, they don't have a guard, so I can easily imagine fingers being sliced off if using one against a sword.
I'd agree with all the above. I was a fencer in my youth and from experience, I wouldn't want to attempt to parry a sword with anything that didn't have a guard. A Two-handed sword/axe/hammer might to be too unwieldy to parry anything other than another two-handed sword/axe/hammer, but I've no direct experience of that sort of combat (beyond a bit of LARPing at University many years ago
).
Re: Parrying
Posted: Wed 31 Jan 2018, 16:58
by Maliloki
For those that want a little more crunch, the Conan game has rules for weapon lengths and getting inside the guard of weapons that should be a relatively easy port over to this, but its been a while since I've read the quick start.
Re: Parrying
Posted: Wed 31 Jan 2018, 17:00
by King_Kull
If it takes an action to draw a weapon, it should absolutely take an action to do the more time consuming thing (and the thing that leaves you more defensively exposed) of standing up
Doesn’t make much sense because you only need to draw a weapon once and not every round. And the possibility is high that a character has weapons drawn before combat.
Re: Parrying
Posted: Wed 31 Jan 2018, 17:52
by Maliloki
How does it not make much sense?
Drawing a weapon, that in reality takes virtually no time and probably shouldn't require a talent or action to do, requires an action.
Why wouldn't standing from prone, which takes a lot more time, effort, and vulnerability require an action?
It doesn't matter if you'd be potentially doing it more often.
If you don't want to be knocked over, defend yourself or train your balance (via Steady Feet).
Less confrontationally, if you absolutely *must* soften things because of whatever reasons, make the Shove action work like this "one success = pushed to Near distance. Two (or three if two isn't enough) successes = knocked prone instead." Would make it so a small shove, or one that was mostly defended against, cause the target to back peddle, but keep their balance. A solid shove/trip would be required to actually knock someone prone.
Re: Parrying
Posted: Wed 31 Jan 2018, 19:24
by 9littlebees
How does it not make much sense?
Drawing a weapon, that in reality takes virtually no time and probably shouldn't require a talent or action to do, requires an action.
Why wouldn't standing from prone, which takes a lot more time, effort, and vulnerability require an action?
I agree, if it takes an action to draw a weapon, it should definitely take an action to stand up from prone. Not that it matters, but
I houserule in almost all my games (regardless of system) that drawing a main, readied weapon is a free action. This only goes for weapons which are easily accessible (sheathed weapons on a hip, strung bows, etc). Accessing inventory, pulling out a concealed weapon or drawing a secondary weapon when the first is dropped would naturally take a full action / maneuever. But I digress...
Less confrontationally, if you absolutely *must* soften things because of whatever reasons, make the Shove action work like this "one success = pushed to Near distance. Two (or three if two isn't enough) successes = knocked prone instead." Would make it so a small shove, or one that was mostly defended against, cause the target to back peddle, but keep their balance. A solid shove/trip would be required to actually knock someone prone.
This shoving tweak is a great idea, consider it pinched!
Re: Parrying
Posted: Wed 31 Jan 2018, 19:27
by Tomas
Thanks for the feedback here!
Re: Parrying
Posted: Fri 02 Feb 2018, 00:00
by lupex
I was thinking about combat and logically an opponent wouldn't just stand about to be hit and you would both be constantly moving trying to get an advantage, with thrusts, swings and parrying happening over a few seconds, regardless of if a party is declared. The main 'to hit' roll is the action that you are putting most of your energy behind and a parry action is where you would be putting your energy into fighting defensively at the expense of other actions.
This doesn't add anything to the rules but will help me to describe how things play out to my players. Now I just need to think through dodge!
Re: Parrying
Posted: Fri 02 Feb 2018, 04:02
by Calagnar
Ii was thinking this my be a good solution. This way you don't have to change much of the game text. You keeping the parrying feature ability for the weapons with it. At the same time you don't handy cap people with a weapon with out the parrying feature.
Original Game Text.
PARRY: You block your opponent’s attack. Reactive action. Requires a shield or a weapon with the PARRYING feature. Roll MELEE and the weapon’s Gear Bonus. If the attacker STABS you, you get a +2 bonus when you PARRY with a shield but a –2 penalty if you parry with a weapon. Every x you roll eliminates a x from the attacker’s roll. Any excess x have no effect.
My suggestion.
PARRY: You block your opponent’s attack. Reactive action. Requires a shield or a weapon. Roll MELEE and the shield or, parrying weapon’s Gear Bonus. If the attacker STABS you, you get a +2 bonus when you parry with a shield but a –2 penalty if you parry with a weapon. Every x you roll eliminates a x from the attacker’s roll. Any excess x have no effect.
Re: Parrying
Posted: Fri 02 Feb 2018, 12:13
by 9littlebees
PARRY: You block your opponent’s attack. Reactive action. Requires a shield or a weapon. Roll MELEE and the shield or, parrying weapon’s Gear Bonus. If the attacker STABS you, you get a +2 bonus when you parry with a shield but a –2 penalty if you parry with a weapon. Every x you roll eliminates a x from the attacker’s roll. Any excess x have no effect.
I like it, it's a good, simple solution. The only downside is that it removes any kind of bonus for weapons which should be good at parrying.
Personally, I'd adapt it thus:
PARRY: You block your opponent’s attack. Reactive action. Requires a shield or a weapon. Roll MELEE and the shield's or weapon's Gear Bonus. If the attacker STABS you, you get a +2 bonus when you parry with a shield, a +0 bonus when using a weapon with the Parrying trait, or a –2 penalty if you parry with any other weapon. Every x you roll eliminates a x from the attacker’s roll. Any excess x have no effect.
And then I'd only grant the Parrying trait to a small number of weapons, preferably quarterstaffs, 1H weapons with a guard (but not a dagger), and an off-hand defensive weapon like a main gauche / sword-breaker (if one is added).
Then any weapon could be used, but parrying weapons wouldn't be penalised and shields (naturally) would be best for stopping an incoming attack.