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A very interesting and valuable discussion! To find the right balance is always a struggle, especially since the type of campaign you play very much determines which are the most useful roles and specialist skills.

However, the fact that there is disagreement over which role is "OP" is a sign that we did something right, I think.

When evaluating a role, one needs to not only consider the specialist skill, but also the role-specific talents as well as the key attribute of the role. Having that extra point of Strength as an Enforcer can be very handy...

... When evaluating a role, one needs to not only consider the specialist skill, but also the role-specific talents as well as the key attribute of the role. Having that extra point of Strength as an Enforcer can be very handy...

True.

Also, an enforcer is also an Ark-heavy type. His skill, Intimidate, can be useful to get your way and also his skill/talent for unarmed melee combat can be useful - in the Ark, people might not let you in with a big axe, but since this guy is very lethal anyway. Intimidate is perhaps less useful outside the Ark, but sometimes it can be used to force an argument with some NPC to end, one way or the other.

And also for the dog handler - he can be a really good character if you plan and develop the character with the dog and starting talent in mind, especially "Mutant's Best Friend".

...

Also. I just saw that in the English version, "Shake it of" is a Strength skill (it is Agility in the Swedish (not updated) version).

This actually may change a thing or two for this skill (also actually more logical for the role).

One more point - in the original Swedish version of the game, there is a system for handling the Boss's gang in a more abstract way, partly to reduce bookkeeping but also to limit the Boss's powers. This system had some problems however, and was removed in the English (and the upcoming new Swedish) edition.

Can we see those rules? We have some problems managing a large combat (4 PC, a dog, admirer, 10 gang members vs 1 boss with 10 gangmembers...) it took one session....

Can we see those rules? We have some problems managing a large combat (4 PC, a dog, admirer, 10 gang members vs 1 boss with 10 gangmembers...) it took one session....

Here is a "fairly good" translation of the most important parts. The part that have changes is the "zonecrawl" with a gang. The Ark things is unchanged (racketeering and project).

Bonus: Your Skill Level in Command is equal to your gangs bonus - a positive modification to your skill rolls. The members don't counts as individuals. The bonus can decrease when the gang takes damage or don't get enough grub. The bonus can never be higher than your SL in Command.

Conflict: You can use your gang when you Fight or when you Manipulates. If you have the talent Gunslingers you can even get help from the gang when you Shoot. The gang can't be used for any other skill rolls. You can't at the same time get any help from another PC.

Enemy groups: In combat with a group of enemies that is as large or larger than your gang (still 3-4 members per SL), your gang is busy with fighting for themselves. In those cases you don't get the bonus to your skill rolls. On the other hand, you will have fewer enemies to fight. The outcome of these battles is determines by the GM without rolling any dice.

Trauma: An enemy can select to attack you or your gang. If he attacks your gang, the bonus is decreased by one for each trauma that the gang takes. If the bonus reaches zero, the gang is either dead or have fled (you can get new gang members at a safe place). One ration of grub heals one bonus point.

Ammo: If you have the talent gunslinges, you don't have to spend any ammo for your gang, they always have enough.

Grub and Water: In the Ark you don't have to give your gang any grub and water, but in the Zone, you must spend one ration of grub and one ration of water per bonus point. If you can't, the bonus decreases. You can opt to take a smaller part of your gang out (i.e. bonus +1 or +2 instead of +3).

Yep, that's a good translation.

Also, in the MYZ rules, please note that playing out a large fight with 10+ fighters on each side, is not recommended. Only roll dice for attack by PCs or directed at PCs. Attacks between NPCs (including gang members) should simply be decided by the GM.

Here is a "fairly good" translation of the most important parts. The part that have changes is the "zonecrawl" with a gang.

It look preety solid.
What problems does it cause?

Here is a "fairly good" translation of the most important parts. The part that have changes is the "zonecrawl" with a gang.

It look preety solid.
What problems does it cause?

Using the first edition rule wasn't any problem what I know of, but it was perhaps a little to abstract for many peoples taste.

Another problem i think:)

On yesterday session, Boss went exploring Zone with 13 gangers. They went in Rot 2 sector. Lots of rolling to see whats going on with gangmembers. Game is awesome, but I wish it was simpler gang management system.

Another problem i think:)

On yesterday session, Boss went exploring Zone with 13 gangers. They went in Rot 2 sector. Lots of rolling to see whats going on with gangmembers. Game is awesome, but I wish it was simpler gang management system.

Zonecrawling with 13 gangers? Isn't that very expensive. That would cost 13 rations of grub and water per day, besides what is needed for healing.

I mean, there aren't any more grub out there just because your group is larger. Besides extra grub that the GM adds to a sector based on what ruins the sector have and/or what threat it has, a sector only contains d6 (contaminated) grub - and that grub is only found if that stunt is chosen, a stunt that can only be chosen once (most stunts can only be chosen once). Exploration takes four hours. With 13 gangers, you need to explore four sectors a day and pick the grub stunt in each just to break even with the daily rations and this only for your gang.

I don't think it was meant to have your entire gang with you when you go out in the zone, perhaps a Dog Handler and/or an Enforcer or two (according to the rules, a gang consist of mostly Enforcers, perhaps a Dog Handler and a Fixer).