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Fenhorn
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Re: Dragonbane Quickstart Feedback

Sun 11 Sep 2022, 22:37

I don't have any trouble with dirty, but in Mutant Year Zero they use doubt. Perhaps is a word that can be used
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Kaybe
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Re: Dragonbane Quickstart Feedback

Mon 12 Sep 2022, 13:25

Two concerns.

- Opposed rolls have the active participant win on ties instead of defender, which is contrary to how other games handle ties. Since the active participant is also the only one that can push the roll, I believe this gives too much of an advantage to one side over the other. Now, that being said, I might be misreading it as it might also be a case where the PC wins on ties, regardless of whether they are the active one or defender. Perhaps clarification is needed here.

- A successful dodge can make you move *up to* two meters away. An attacker can target a defender *up to* two meters away, and also get a free attack on someone fleeing who is up to two meters away. So this appears to make the movement from the dodge pointless, no? Or maybe it's only for getting into cover from ranged attacks and was never meant to assist in running from a melee attacker?
 
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Fenhorn
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Re: Dragonbane Quickstart Feedback

Mon 12 Sep 2022, 13:51

<>
- A successful dodge can make you move *up to* two meters away. An attacker can target a defender *up to* two meters away, and also get a free attack on someone fleeing who is up to two meters away. So this appears to make the movement from the dodge pointless, no? Or maybe it's only for getting into cover from ranged attacks and was never meant to assist in running from a melee attacker?
A defender (normally) stands in the square adjacent to the attacker, that is two meters away. If the defender dodges and uses the free two meter movement that comes with dodge, he is now four meters away from the attacker.
“Thanks for noticin' me.” - Eeyore
 
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Kaybe
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Re: Dragonbane Quickstart Feedback

Mon 12 Sep 2022, 14:05

A defender (normally) stands in the square adjacent to the attacker, that is two meters away. If the defender dodges and uses the free two meter movement that comes with dodge, he is now four meters away from the attacker.
Ah, yes, that makes sense. Thanks!
 
Vyrsus
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Re: Dragonbane Quickstart Feedback

Mon 12 Sep 2022, 21:49

Picking the lowest roll if both sides succeed in an opposed roll seems like an odd choice. If the opposing side has the higher skill value, it basically becomes roll under a random number between 1 and your skill level, entirely removing the impact of the difference in skill . If the opponent's skill value is lower it matters a bit , but creates a situation where a lower skilled opponent barely succeding is a bigger obstacle than high skilled opponent barely succeeding. I know success is binary, so last scenario is perhaps more of a mental image thing.
 
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Fenhorn
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Re: Dragonbane Quickstart Feedback

Mon 12 Sep 2022, 22:26

Picking the lowest roll if both sides succeed in an opposed roll seems like an odd choice. If the opposing side has the higher skill value, it basically becomes roll under a random number between 1 and your skill level, entirely removing the impact of the difference in skill . If the opponent's skill value is lower it matters a bit , but creates a situation where a lower skilled opponent barely succeding is a bigger obstacle than high skilled opponent barely succeeding. I know success is binary, so last scenario is perhaps more of a mental image thing.
If using differences roll and skill level or highest rolled success will result in that not only do the one with a higher skill level win more often because he will succeed and the other will fail, he will also win most times that both succeeds because he most often can get a better "tie-breaker" than the other. Using the lowest score wins ties at least give the one with the lower skill level a chance to win.

Personally I would like to see the old classic 'Opposed Roll Table' or Resistance table (or whatever it is called in English, 'Motståndstabellen' in Swedish) instead. Sure it means that only the active side rolls, but I don't mind that.

Motståndstabell (the text is in Swedish but the table can be understood regardless.
“Thanks for noticin' me.” - Eeyore
 
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Logen_Nein
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Re: Dragonbane Quickstart Feedback

Mon 12 Sep 2022, 23:43

Picking the lowest roll if both sides succeed in an opposed roll seems like an odd choice. If the opposing side has the higher skill value, it basically becomes roll under a random number between 1 and your skill level, entirely removing the impact of the difference in skill . If the opponent's skill value is lower it matters a bit , but creates a situation where a lower skilled opponent barely succeding is a bigger obstacle than high skilled opponent barely succeeding. I know success is binary, so last scenario is perhaps more of a mental image thing.
If using differences roll and skill level or highest rolled success will result in that not only do the one with a higher skill level win more often because he will succeed and the other will fail, he will also win most times that both succeeds because he most often can get a better "tie-breaker" than the other. Using the lowest score wins ties at least give the one with the lower skill level a chance to win.

Personally I would like to see the old classic 'Opposed Roll Table' or Resistance table (or whatever it is called in English, 'Motståndstabellen' in Swedish) instead. Sure it means that only the active side rolls, but I don't mind that.

Motståndstabell (the text is in Swedish but the table can be understood regardless.
Ah the good old resistance table. Should be easy enough to adapt if you don't like the opposed roll process.
 
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Edkind
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Re: Dragonbane Quickstart Feedback

Tue 13 Sep 2022, 17:09

TL:DR: Fun game, cool give/take mechanics. Not fun to a lose a turn with reactions or fear effects. Also not fun to stack fear effects.

I got to run the pre-made in the back of the guide with a few buds and we enjoyed it! Plenty of it worked great: the initiative system, skill rolls, pushing, helping, magic, monsters. Overall there was a good feeling to gameplay that themed around give & take. The one instance of strong feedback from my players was the turn-loss mechanics. Reactions in general seemed to take more than give. Giving up a move/action, only to potentially avoid a single instance of incoming damage with dodge/parry quickly became something my PCs decided wasn't worth it. Especially when most of the monsters they faced were rolling with 2-3 turns of potential damage anyway. Even though they were still taking an "action" by using dodge/parry, this still felt like they were effectively just not taking their turn at all (succeed or fail).

I can see how the current set-up does indeed work, but in the end, effectively losing turns just wasn't fun for my players. We really enjoyed the core idea of the defensive mechanics and wanted to make them work, so we think we'll try this in the future: if they succeed on a dodge/parry they don't have to flip their card for the reaction, but if they failed then it's the normal result where they get hit and still have to flip their card. There still would be a chance to lose a turn, but also a chance that they wouldn't. This certainly makes the option more powerful but still prone to failure, and overall a more reasonable choice to make. We even saw the potential of the "wait" mechanic being used more, as a PC would be more inclined to fish for dodge/parry potential and delay their turn.

Other "you lose a turn" mechanics sprinkled in didn't sit well either. There was one in the paralyze option on the Fear chart that hit my players a few times. Granted, losing a turn might just not be fun for my players in particular (I can't speak for other tables), and maybe it would feel less punishing once we got gameplay down and ran combat a bit faster so folks weren't just waiting around, but I think it's still worth noting that those moments with "losing a turn" were the only bad ones in our experience.

Additionally I had a personal note on the topic of the Fear Mechanics. I did not like the idea of stacking fear effects on PCs in a single combat/instance. That just felt mean lol. Maybe I'm a lenient GM, but it also felt better for a PC to only gain one effect from fear and have it flavor their character attitude the rest of the combat/instance. Trying to tell my PC's "Okay, so you're exhausted, you're scared, & paralyzed all at once", RP wise, that does make sense as those can all go together, but when they're building one-at-a-time they start to seem silly. "You're afraid... and now you're MORE afraid... and now, you're even MOOREE afraid."

Overall, we're excited to see where the future of the game goes. I certainly backed, so i'll be following! Thank you to your team for all the hard work on the game.
 
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Fenhorn
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Re: Dragonbane Quickstart Feedback

Wed 14 Sep 2022, 13:18

New updated version can be downloaded here. It has now a clean player map at the end.
“Thanks for noticin' me.” - Eeyore
 
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jasales
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Re: Dragonbane Quickstart Feedback

Wed 14 Sep 2022, 15:15

The adventure includes the term "portcullis" but I believe what is meant is "gate".
The description of the portcullis being forced open implies a gate. Otherwise it would have to be lifted?
port·cul·lis
/ˌpôrtˈkələs/
noun: portcullis; plural noun: portcullises

a strong, heavy grating that can be lowered down grooves on each side of a gateway to block it.
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