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BR Universe. Thoughts...

Posted: Sun 26 Jun 2022, 06:18
by Grimwood
Ok offered up for fun...

Known Universe...

Sol system.
Earth. Mars. Phobos and Deimos. Jupiter Europa, Ganymede, Callisto
2.2 light years travel Ramanuja Waystation
4.4 light years travel Alpha Centauri System
Proxima Centauri - and Tannhauser Gate
Prox B colony HV
Prox C colony S
Prox D colony D
Alpha Centauri AB no colony just major stars
Cerium Belt
4.4 light years via TG gate jump Ariel & Caliban System (fka Trafalgar system)
Calantha and other end of Tannhauser Gate
Argentine Moons (3)
6.4 light years (no gate) Alpha Orionis system
World 317
Mesa Echo Erebus
7.4 light years via TG gate jump Kwes 4 system - Kwes Binary
Trinity Prime + (3) moons
Eminar 7
Planet 10
(Vidar and Arcadia 234 = Nuked)
9.4 light years via TG gate jump Antares system
Antares Prime
Nibia Prime
Planet 6

Hostile aliens - yes they are out there...

Re: BR Universe. Thoughts...

Posted: Mon 11 Jul 2022, 06:48
by gregory
Posted this in its own topic, but had forgotten this one was already here! So deleted and replied here to further discussion. Curious to what your sources are? Googling doesn't bring many of them up for me like Eminar or Nibia Prime.

According to Wallace in 2049, humanity is only on 9 "worlds." If we take that to be figurative, there are 9 Off-World colonies by that point in time. If we take that to be literal, then 9 planets have been colonized but there may be additional colonies on space stations, moons, etc. Either could make sense, but I don't see Wallace as a pedantic guy who would casually dismiss colonies on moons as not counting as a human achievement. So I certainly prefer the former.

According to the timeline in the core rulebook, the Off-World Emigration Program begins in the late 1990s with the moon and Mars. Then, between all the various sources I've noted and that are listed online, we have the mentions of:

- Calantha/Kalanthia exists by 2007 with the Seige of Calantha
- By 2018, we have Dominguez, where the Nexus-6 mutiny happened
- By 2019, we have Shimata, wars on Phobos, the Battle of the Gemini, the battle off the Shoulder of Orion, the wars near Jupiter, and a conflict on the Argentine moons. Of those, it seems like Shimata and the Argentine moons are meant to be colonies, while Gemini, Orion, and Jupiter are likely just battles. Wars on Phobos is a tossup, but since Phobos is only 7 miles wide, it doesn't seem like an ideal place for a colony if a single city on Earth can take up a good chunk of the Western seaboard of the United States
- By 2019 we also, of course, have the Tannhauser Gate, which I don't think anyone should touch, because describing it at all would destroy the poetic mystery surrounding it. That being said, the comics did have a warp gate which seems to imply that the Tannhauser Gate is some sort of warp structure which allows ships to travel interstellar distances
- By 2020, we have Arcadia, the Cerium Belt, and Vidar, which all seem like they're intended to be colonies
- In 2020 we have a battle at the Fields of Calantha
- By 2020, we have Mesa Echo Erebus, which seems to be a colony
- By 2025, we have Rakenu, which seems to be a colony
- By 2029, we have Heidecker-Vostro, which seems to be a colony. We also have Ramanuja, which is described as a waystation rather than a colony.

Now it could be that the mining colonies are not, despite the name, counted as true colonies, and that Wallace is only referring to planets/moons with terraformed atmospheres which I think would be fair. In that case, our moon doesn't have an atmosphere but is theorized to be able to hold one for at least a few hundred years, so it's a possibility. Calantha had an atmosphere that even replicants had to wear helmets in, so it doesn't seem terraformed. That being said, because it was named on screen in 2049 it definitely feels like it is one of the Off-World Colonies. Dominguez and Shimata are explicitly referenced as being Off-World Colonies. Phobos is far too small to hold an atmosphere so it's out. The Argentine Moons we don't have enough information to say one way or the other, but they were likely intended to be an Off-World Colony (Colonies?). Arcadia is a definite. The Cerium Belt seems like it's referring to an asteroid belt so that would be out. Freysa was on Vidar for four years and it was being taken over by another faction, so it really seems like that was a colony of note. Mesa Echo Erebus has no atmosphere, so it's out. Heidecker-Vostro clearly isn't terraformed, so it's out.

1) The Moon
2) Mars
3) Calantha
4) Dominguez
5) Shimata
6) Argentine Moons
7) Arcadia
8) Vidar
9 Rakenu

Talk about destroying the poetic mystery, there's no dang colonies left to define! But since we're in pedantic mode here, I think it's interesting that it was pretty easy to narrow it down to 9 which fit some loose criteria. Obviously the folks at FL can pick and choose what makes the most sense to them and what makes the best game. Certainly I don't feel like they should be forced to stick with these just because another author chose a name at some point in the past (especially since Arcadia is a Soldier tie-in). But if there needs to be a starting point to springboard off of, this seems like a decent list. Plus, there may be stuff I'm missing here since I only read through the comics once and I'm leaning a bit on the Off-World wiki here.

While we're here, though, it also may be worth mentioning space travel. We've got mention of "attack ships" "gypsy ships" and "shuttles" in the first film, and we know that Roy Batty was in battles both within our solar system near the moons of Jupiter, but also near the "shoulder of Orion" which would logically mean either Betelgeuse or Bellatrix. The former is 500-600 light-years from us, and the latter is 240-260 light-years from us. So that means if Batty and crew escaped in 2018 and made it to Earth by late 2019, and if Dominguez is at a not-dissimilar distance, their shuttle is capable of traveling at least 20 times the speed of light, depending on what month they escaped. This would presumably be through one of the warp gates that we saw in the comics, which means that it could have taken significantly less time. Roy and crew didn't necessarily come straight from the Dominguez mutiny to Earth, but I'm not sure what else they'd be getting up to in the meantime that would be higher priority than getting more life. So it seems like interstellar travel might take a decent amount of time.

Re: BR Universe. Thoughts...

Posted: Mon 18 Jul 2022, 20:27
by Grimwood
Hey, thanks for the reply, lots to cover, so here goes. I guess my biggest source is the Blade Runner fandom site. But I’ve tapped into Soldier, and PKD first book a bit also when it comes to off-world details.

Ok so first off I thought there were 9 original off-world colonies in 2019 and Wallace’s statement was that he just expanded to 9 additional worlds by 2049??? This was well short of his aspirations and why he was a bit frustrated in that moment.

I’d say the first 9 colonies are, Mars, Arcadia, Argentine Moons, Calantha, Cerium Belt, Dominguez, Mesa Echo Erebus, Shimata, Vidar. I don’t count the Ramanuja Waystation. But a case could be that it is, and Calantha was not a stable enough colony to be counted at some points in time. A case could also be made that Arcadia is one and the same as Arcadia 234 which was nothing more than a dump planet in 2036, so maybe it lost its colony status. I’m going with it was one and the same and was nuked but a different planet was colonized and became New Arcadia.

The Cerium Belt I also took some liberties on, making it located in Alpha Centauri with three moons all of which are listed above and colonies... CB, D, S.

Need to keep this short, and re read your response, but I will get back.

Re: BR Universe. Thoughts...

Posted: Mon 18 Jul 2022, 20:47
by Grimwood
Yes, space travel is a hoot! This universe has to have light speed PLUS capability, which really puts a bit of a funk on saying the Alien Universe is part of BR Universe...

I put the Tann Gate in Alpha Centauri near Proxima so it is 4.3 ish light years away and the other side of the gate is near Calantha, which is one of the reasons that place has been so contested...

I think ships with light speed ac-celerity drives would need 5 speeds, light speed, 2x, 4x, 8x, 16x to make space travel possible.

Re: BR Universe. Thoughts...

Posted: Mon 18 Jul 2022, 23:46
by Grimwood
I think the comic timeline shows Rakenu in existence in 2024-25 so that might not be in the first 9. Also Heidecker- Vostro might date back to 2017-2019 and the artic moon. I put that moon in with Shimata and Dominguez in the Cerium Belt in Alpha Centauri. I think I called it CB by mistake, but meant HV.

Might have to pick up the comic series and iron out some of this, thanks!

Re: BR Universe. Thoughts...

Posted: Fri 22 Jul 2022, 23:32
by Grimwood
I went back and tried to find a year or specific event reference that confirms a colony existed at the time of the original 2019 movie.

Moon - ok I guess this makes sense, it is a boring rock so I might scrub it from my gameplay, but for now I will count this as 1. Anyone have proof the moon is mentioned as having a colony?

Mars - N6 brains made here plus Roy worked here...

Argentine Moons - Roy fought here roughly 2018.

Calantha - siege 2007

Dominguez - 2019 Roy and group fled here.

Shimata - 2019

That is a solid group of 6 colonies... This next group I think a case can be made...

Arcadia - 2020 a brochure was mentioned, so I’d go with it existing in 2019. I’m writing this in my gameplay as Arcadia 234 and since it was nuked in 2036 I’ve had a different planet named New Arcadia...and the new one is credited to Wallace as one of his 9.

Jupiter (moon or moons) Roy fought a campaign here. I’d say Europa or Ganymede or Callisto are possible but I’d just count this as one colony.

Cerium Belt - 2020 Freysa campaign - since I think her inception date was Dec 21 2020 it either took less than 10 days to get her here from Earth or she was “born” closer to the Cerium Belt. Anyway you look at it, this could have existed in 2019 before the campaign that sent Freysa there.

Vidar - Freysa did 4 tours here... could have been before or after Mesa Echo Erebus? And a colony in 2019.

Mesa Echo Erebus - Freysa 2021 and like above, this could have been a colony in 2019.

So those are the top contenders if my data is good. That totals 11 colonies in 2019

I am not sure where I got nine colonies existed in 2019 from... but Wallace did say 9 additional colonies by his hand... so I would say Rakenu 2025, HV mining colony attacked in 2026. Are possible Wallace expansions...

My early post mentioned hostile aliens...I currently have 6 species: Toads, Brood, Cows, Nibs, Shouters, Lizards. The planets they are/were from are (in order as above) Argentine Moons, Antares Prime, Calantha, Nibia Prime, World 317, and Vidar. I felt it only right to have several species that might challenge human colonization and provide replicants something else to fight vs other replicants. The species with space travel/light speed tech are the Brood, Nibs and Lizards. Oh and there is a predator race that we know very little about roaming the Antares System...they just so happen to bear a striking resemblance to that Hollywood Predator Arnold crossed paths with so many moons ago.

Having lots of fun sharing this stuff, all courteous comments welcomed.

Re: BR Universe. Thoughts...

Posted: Sat 23 Jul 2022, 03:55
by Grimwood
Oh and what am I creating as far as the 9 Wally Worlds... New Arcadia, Planet 3, Planet 5, New Vidar, Heidecker-Vostro, Rakenu, Planet 10, Eminar 7 and Trinity Prime and her three moons. P3, P5, New Vidar, HV and Rakenu are located in Alpha Orionis. New Arcadia is located in Ariel and Caliban near Calantha. P10, Eminar 7, Trinity P and moons are in Kwes 4 where Vidar and Arcadia 234 were.

Re: BR Universe. Thoughts...

Posted: Sun 31 Jul 2022, 02:10
by aramis
I doubt the shuttle was FTL capable - most settings with gate travel lack hyperdrives. (Stargate and B5 being notable exceptions)
Even the ones that do have one clearly superior to the other.(SG1 gate is near instant, hyperspace is not)(B5 "hyperdrives" access the same hyperspace as gates do; essentially they're gate projectors.)

Re: BR Universe. Thoughts...

Posted: Thu 25 Aug 2022, 01:13
by Grimwood
So I had to pick up other PKD books and dive into the author’s mind...especially when dealing with off-world locations... In Three Stigmata, travel to Prox is a three year journey. That’s roughly 4.4LY traveled in less time than at just full light speed...IF Prox is a location in Alpha Centauri.

Also interesting to note, Mars, Venus, Io, Ganymede, mentioned as inhabited locations.

I know, I know...not the same universe, but sure seems like it is simple shift here and there to tie up a few unknowns.