gregory
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Early Access Feedback - Lore Concern (Positronic Brains)

Fri 17 Jun 2022, 19:05

In chapter 6 on page 144, you reference the Nexus-6 as having a "positronic brain" which is lore-breaking. Asimov conceived the positronic brain as something electronic and robotic in nature, made of platinum and iridium. The Nexus-6 are fully organic beings. The inclusion of this term implies that the Nexus-6 are robots, not organic, which completely dismantles the central theme of the films.

This term is also referenced for Nexus 1-5 models on page 142, as is the term "artificial intelligence." My understanding of pre-established lore is that every generation of replicant was conceived as a fully organic, bioengineered beings with organic brains. How exactly would someone program "artificial intelligence" into an organic brain? This is why memories were used to control replicants in the first place, because they couldn't be programmed with AI. The reference to positronic brains and artificial intelligence would absolutely make sense for pre-Nexus robotic automotons, but it feels like using these terms to refer to replicants is redefining what these beings are from what we see in the films.
 
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Vader
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Re: Early Access Feedback - Lore Concern (Positronic Brains)

Fri 17 Jun 2022, 22:02

Quite so. I'd be inclined to categorise this a "clear error", and move it to the formal feedback thread...

We're not computers, Sebastian. We're physical!

Meaning biological.

"Positronic brains" are found in several androids throughout sci-fi — Bracewell, Data, Sonny... — all of whom share the common characteristic of a fundamentally mechanistic nature, which in turn sets them apart from the replicants.
A "positron" is the antiparticle of the electron — an "anti-electron" — the implication being that a positronic brain still has to be a computer of some sort, albeit one very different from the electronic ones we know of.
Which Roy very emphatically states they are not.

Once again begging the question, however: to what degree is continuity and consistency with source material considered a priority?
Before you use the word "XENOMORPH" again, you should read this article through:

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/aliens-throwaway-line-confusion
 
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Tomas
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Re: Early Access Feedback - Lore Concern (Positronic Brains)

Fri 17 Jun 2022, 22:57

Hi!

Consistency with the source material is absolutely a priority. The term positronic was used in Hampton Fancher and David People's 1981 screenplay draft of Blade Runner, which is considered canon. That said, if the term causes confusion, we might consider removing it.
Fria Ligan
 
gregory
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Re: Early Access Feedback - Lore Concern (Positronic Brains)

Fri 17 Jun 2022, 23:18

Just one person's opinion here, but I think it could definitely lead to confusion. From my observation it's a surprisingly common misunderstanding amongst viewers of the first film to be unsure of the physical makeup of replicants—I think mostly due to some viewers not parsing the intended context of "robot" and "android" in the opening text, then having that confusion reinforced by the enhanced strength and cold/heat resistance that is shown at various points in the film. Anecdotal, but I've encountered people who only realized the true nature of replicant biology after seeing the "bioengineered humans" text at the beginning of 2049.

It's an excellent deep-cut of a reference, but I think the most common understanding of a positronic brain is that it's electronic in nature. Personally I've only heard the term from Asimov and Star Trek, both of which are explicitly referring to an electronic component. That being said, I also don't think it's necessary to cater to the lowest common denominator with this sort of thing! Either way, awesome to hear the thought and care that's being put into it.
 
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Kaybe
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Re: Early Access Feedback - Lore Concern (Positronic Brains)

Sat 18 Jun 2022, 05:36

Honestly, if it was only ever used in a screenplay draft, but not the final screenplay, and if it was never used in the original novel or any other further Blade Runner fiction, I'd consider removing it simply because of the association.

Positronic brain is a term that's become synonymous with androids. Fully sentient artificial beings that are not biologically engineered. The most famous example of course being Data from Star Trek.

It's my understanding that it's never truly explained if Replicants are fully biological or if they have artificial components that make them tangibly different from humans. I think this mystery is VERY important to the lore, and adding in clear android terminology like positronic brains kinda ruins it.
 
baldrick0712
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Re: Early Access Feedback - Lore Concern (Positronic Brains)

Sat 18 Jun 2022, 12:21

I haven't got the PDFs yet but wondering if there is anything in them about how replicants are made? My understanding is that they are grown rather than assembled - so kind of like humans that have been rapidly aged from embryo to adult, hence them not having sufficient time to develop emotions like empathy.

[EDIT] However in the first movie there is that guy who tells Roy that he made his eyes so... confusing
 
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Vader
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Re: Early Access Feedback - Lore Concern (Positronic Brains)

Sat 18 Jun 2022, 13:21

[EDIT] However in the first movie there is that guy who tells Roy that he made his eyes so... confusing

They call themselves “genetic engineers”.

So, what Chew did was “made”, as in engineered the genetic code of, Roy’s eyes.
Not “made” as in physically assembled them.
Before you use the word "XENOMORPH" again, you should read this article through:

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/aliens-throwaway-line-confusion
 
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Vader
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Re: Early Access Feedback - Lore Concern (Positronic Brains)

Sat 18 Jun 2022, 13:37

Hi!

Consistency with the source material is absolutely a priority. The term positronic was used in Hampton Fancher and David People's 1981 screenplay draft of Blade Runner, which is considered canon. That said, if the term causes confusion, we might consider removing it.

Thanks for responding Tomas; I truly appreciate it!

I understand where you got the reference, but on analysis, I feel I must agree with what Kaybe says, above.

If you would consider removing it, I sincerely believe the end product will be all the stronger for it.
Before you use the word "XENOMORPH" again, you should read this article through:

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/aliens-throwaway-line-confusion
 
paladin2019
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Re: Early Access Feedback - Lore Concern (Positronic Brains)

Sun 19 Jun 2022, 00:26

Hi!

Consistency with the source material is absolutely a priority. The term positronic was used in Hampton Fancher and David People's 1981 screenplay draft of Blade Runner, which is considered canon. That said, if the term causes confusion, we might consider removing it.
[off-topic] Wait, what? That's like referring to the stuff Starkiller does in the first movie, Star Wars. Do people really consider things rejected or omitted from the final version(s) canon? :o [/OT]
 
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Vader
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Re: Early Access Feedback - Lore Concern (Positronic Brains)

Sun 19 Jun 2022, 02:43

Okay, clarifying it a bit for the record:

The introduction to the Fancher/Peoples draft states the second generation androids are “bio-engineered”, but equipped with “electronic relay units and positronic brains”, while the third generation — aka. replicants — instead are entirely constructed of “skin/flesh culture”.

So, I’d be inclined to say that the draft, too, supports not attaching the term to replicant brains.

As for the draft itself, it’s a late one, and very close to the final screenplay. However, it cannot be considered entirely canonical, eg. in that it posits that the V-K machine doesn’t work on Nexus 6 replicants. The implication seems to be that Rachael isn’t a prototype for mitigating behaviour by implanting memories; she’s just a standard product sample — this is actually done on all Nexus 6. This particular feature seems to be what makes that generation as a whole different from earlier replicants, according to the draft.
And as we know, that is not consistent with established lore.
Before you use the word "XENOMORPH" again, you should read this article through:

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/aliens-throwaway-line-confusion

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