Pcarbon
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Ammo spent

Mon 25 Apr 2022, 00:18

The rules indicate that you sum up the d6 digits on all of your ammo dice to determine the total of ammunition spent on the attack. So if you fired a lever action rifle (rof: 1, mag: 8) using one ammo dice and rolled at least one success on your base dice and a 6 on the ammo dice you would have used up 6 cartridges of the 8 in your rifle. However, even though you spent 6 cartridges you would never have been able to hit more than 2 targets. that does not seem to make sense. Or am I missing something?
 
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Fenhorn
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Re: Ammo spent

Mon 25 Apr 2022, 00:58

You have aimed the weapon only at one target, but you are allowed to hit nearby targets as well. You are not aiming or re-aiming between each shoot, you are aiming and then you are firing as fast as you can, which is not particularly fast with a bolt-action rifle. Weapons with low amount of bullets in the magazine and of course with a low ROF should only do single shot firing.
“Thanks for noticin' me.” - Eeyore
 
Pcarbon
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Re: Ammo spent

Mon 25 Apr 2022, 01:16

"Weapons with low amount of bullets in the magazine and of course with a low ROF should only do single shot firing"

But the rules allow you to use an ammo dice for firearms with ROF 1. Which means if you roll a 6 on the ammo dice you would have shot 6 times. And even if you apply all "hits", i.e., what you get from you base dice and from your ammo dice, to the same target you would not be able to get more than 2 hits despite having expended 6 bullets. Wouldn't it make more sense to calculate the ammo spent by counting the number of ammo dice spent and adding 1?
 
baldrick0712
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Re: Ammo spent

Mon 25 Apr 2022, 06:13

And even if you apply all "hits", i.e., what you get from you base dice and from your ammo dice, to the same target you would not be able to get more than 2 hits despite having expended 6 bullets.
What do you mean by, "you would not be able to get more than 2 hits"? In theory you could roll 5 successes if you were rolling D10 or D12 base dice and one Ammo die. With those successes you could conceivably hit 5 close together targets. Not very likely given the odds of rolling 10+ on both base dice and 6 on the ammo die but still possible, assuming the magazine contained at least 5 rounds. More likely you would pick two targets to inflict a critical on each and just damage a third.
 
paladin2019
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Re: Ammo spent

Mon 25 Apr 2022, 08:47

I made the same mistake. Base dice can only score one hit and deal extra damage. You need ammo dice to hit more targets.
 
baldrick0712
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Re: Ammo spent

Mon 25 Apr 2022, 16:05

I made the same mistake. Base dice can only score one hit and deal extra damage. You need ammo dice to hit more targets.
Ah, you are right! I had assumed base dice and ammo dice worked the same way. I stand corrected.
 
andresk
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Re: Ammo spent

Sun 01 May 2022, 12:17

However, even though you spent 6 cartridges you would never have been able to hit more than 2 targets. that does not seem to make sense. Or am I missing something?
The ammo dice are meant to represent the volume of fire. Not every hit in a combat scenario is going to hit and somethimes you will keep shooting until the target drops. The ammo dice try to model this the best they can. The "only 6 is a success" so you can never score an extra hit without expending 6 or however many rounds were left in the magazine part of this rule rubs me the wrong way a bit, however changing this would probably require an extra dice roll per every ammo dice roll, so it's fine for a system that tries to model complicated and chaotic actions in a relatively simple manner. And in actual gameplay it's not that bad. You have to not think about each element of the rules as the objective reality, but rather an abstraction of what happened. Don't get bogged down in the details of how many rounds hit where. The abstraction is that X amount of ammo was spent and the effect on target was Y, you can play it off however you want as a referee, or even let the players describe what happened.
 
Mahatatain
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Re: Ammo spent

Fri 06 May 2022, 11:58

I think that Andresk sums it up well. Ammo dice represent firing more rounds at your target(s) in an "attack" and some of them will hit and some of them will miss. It's not about calculating the hit chance of every single round individually. This works mechanically in the game and is producing interesting and realistic feeling combats in my experience of GMing.

In my most recent session I've had players using a lot of ammo dice and burning through ammo to try and gain fire superiority. Some are now having to reload and I can see that it will lead to a discussion about either conserving ammo or switching to captured Soviet weapons as ammo for them is more easily obtained.
 
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silverfoxdmt73
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Re: Ammo spent

Tue 27 Sep 2022, 11:04

I wasn't entirely sure where to put this, but it seems to fit here.

Ammo Dice - the 'Success' on the d6 ammo die is only on the 6 face meaning you expend 6 rounds of ammo on each success. Would it not be more random to have put the successes on difference die faces through the set. So for the base set of 6 die, have the successes on each of the different faces and the 'Jam/bane' icon on the opposite face?

It just seems to penalise you through high ammo use to be spending 6 ammo for each additional success all the time.
 
baldrick0712
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Re: Ammo spent

Tue 27 Sep 2022, 19:19

I wasn't entirely sure where to put this, but it seems to fit here.

Ammo Dice - the 'Success' on the d6 ammo die is only on the 6 face meaning you expend 6 rounds of ammo on each success. Would it not be more random to have put the successes on difference die faces through the set. So for the base set of 6 die, have the successes on each of the different faces and the 'Jam/bane' icon on the opposite face?

It just seems to penalise you through high ammo use to be spending 6 ammo for each additional success all the time.
I don't mind how it is in the RAW. Say you roll three ammo dice. You could end up expending 15 rounds with no effect or 8 rounds and a bullet symbol, but odds are that you will probably expend more ammo if you do roll a bullet symbol than if you don't, which is logical to me (the volume of bullets being the effect it is trying to simulate).

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