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Turkalin
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Joined: Tue 29 Jun 2021, 19:50

Suggestion for Ruins of the Lost Realm publication

Sun 27 Feb 2022, 10:26

Hi! I'd like to suggest the release of the pdf of Ruins of the Lost Realm before it enters its printing phase, so we can proof-read it and avoid some errors on the finished book. I think two additional weeks or so of delay in printing can have a very positive effect on the quality of the finished product, and we are very willing to help with that. What do you think?
 
Otaku-sempai
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Location: Western New York

Re: Suggestion for Ruins of the Lost Realm publication

Sun 27 Feb 2022, 18:02

Not a bad idea.
#FideltyToTolkien
 
Niallism
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Re: Suggestion for Ruins of the Lost Realm publication

Sun 27 Feb 2022, 18:28

I'd rather they just paid a professional.
 
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Harlath
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Re: Suggestion for Ruins of the Lost Realm publication

Sun 27 Feb 2022, 18:45

Pinnacle (Savage Worlds, Deadlands etc) use proofreaders and editors, but still present the pdf for a fan proof-reading pass. It's a good process, assuming printing/production schedules allow it.
 
JuggernautRide
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Re: Suggestion for Ruins of the Lost Realm publication

Mon 28 Feb 2022, 05:36

I'd rather they just paid a professional.
I would rather see that happen as well, but let's be honest, it isn't going to happen. Almost nobody in the RPG space pays for truly professional level editing and translation - and they may not be able to find someone even if they wanted to pay as the field is so woefully underpopulated. I would like to see them release a pdf at least three weeks ahead of scheduled final submission for the rabid fans on this board to look through, as OP requests. I think the vast majority of errors would be found, and sadly the job would likely be better than the results they would otherwise get.
 
JuggernautRide
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Re: Suggestion for Ruins of the Lost Realm publication

Mon 28 Feb 2022, 05:37

Pinnacle (Savage Worlds, Deadlands etc) use proofreaders and editors, but still present the pdf for a fan proof-reading pass. It's a good process, assuming printing/production schedules allow it.
Goodman Games does the same with their "stomp the typo" program. Unfortunately, for most hobby companies, crowd sourcing this sort of thing is about the only viable option.
 
Sebastian
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Re: Suggestion for Ruins of the Lost Realm publication

Mon 28 Feb 2022, 08:21

Well, we did that with the Core rulebook and there still were some mistakes. Don’t get me wrong, I love the book and mistakes happen, but honestly it is not our job to proofread it. I‘m not even a native speaker, so I won‘t help much concerning the language. And when it comes to rules, that is really long process. A lot of those issues I only realize, when I played the game.
 
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Harlath
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Re: Suggestion for Ruins of the Lost Realm publication

Mon 28 Feb 2022, 10:34

Well, we did that with the Core rulebook and there still were some mistakes. Don’t get me wrong, I love the book and mistakes happen, but honestly it is not our job to proofread it. I‘m not even a native speaker, so I won‘t help much concerning the language. And when it comes to rules, that is really long process. A lot of those issues I only realize, when I played the game.
Under the type of model Pinnacle uses, it isn't an alpha pdf that's shared like Fria Ligan did (chapters were missing, some rules were substantially revised for the better), but the draft for printing. If printing schedules allow, I think following this approach works well, particularly for typos etc. As you say, some rules issues need experience in play to pick up, but sharing a draft pdf pre-printing is something other companies do and it works well.
 
Asgo
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Re: Suggestion for Ruins of the Lost Realm publication

Mon 28 Feb 2022, 12:31

the timing with involving readers as secondary proof readers isn't that easy.

from a technical point of view using a pre printing draft would be ideal, it would be the final state from a content and internal proof reading perspective.
But from a project management perspective it would also mean putting everything on hold for an arbitrary amount of time before going to printing.

From a project management perspective it therefore makes sense to do a reader involvement earlier - like here with the alpha. Sure it may overlap with ongoing work and own proof reading, which does create additional overhead to make sure reported errata are still applicable. On the other hand it allows involving the readers early with months on the timeline giving readers a lot of time , which is necessary because they are doing it in their spare time, while at the same time continuing with project work itself.

Both approaches and variants in between have advantages and drawbacks.

Generally speaking, involving readers has the problem that you don't know how many people are active, how far they are in their pass or if coverage is distributed evenly across the whole book.
Without a certain degree of organization of who and who does what - comparable to the peer review setups of scientific papers - it is an unreliable process that I only would employ as a bonus atop an internal proof reading system. It's like open source software, just because it is open it doesn't mean every piece is looked at with the same degree of care.
 
Niallism
Posts: 116
Joined: Tue 29 Jun 2021, 13:56

Re: Suggestion for Ruins of the Lost Realm publication

Mon 28 Feb 2022, 19:12

I'd rather they just paid a professional.
I would rather see that happen as well, but let's be honest, it isn't going to happen. Almost nobody in the RPG space pays for truly professional level editing and translation - and they may not be able to find someone even if they wanted to pay as the field is so woefully underpopulated. I would like to see them release a pdf at least three weeks ahead of scheduled final submission for the rabid fans on this board to look through, as OP requests. I think the vast majority of errors would be found, and sadly the job would likely be better than the results they would otherwise get.
Really? I’m shocked. I do scientific/medical translation and editing, with a little business stuff too. I’d have thought there would be lots of people wanting to do the less dry editing of RPGs and other games.

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