Raellus
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Re: Clarification for ROF 1 and ammo dice

Mon 25 Jul 2022, 21:55

Since the rules are a bit fuzzy on this question, it becomes an abstraction subject to Referee interpretation. Roll a 6 on the ammo dice for a weapon with ROF 1, MAG 1? Either the bullet enters one body part, exits, and enters another (from someone who's read a ton of military history and first person accounts of combat, this is entirely within the realm of possibilities) or a bullet passes through one person and winds up in another (less common, but it happens).

But I get it. It would be nice to hear what the design intent was (if it was a conscious decision) or how one of the designers would rationalize the rule.

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Ursus Maior
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Re: Clarification for ROF 1 and ammo dice

Tue 26 Jul 2022, 14:37

As per the rules, hitting a second person requires more than one bullet to be spent.
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Fenhorn
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Re: Clarification for ROF 1 and ammo dice

Tue 26 Jul 2022, 15:10

As per the rules, hitting a second person requires more than one bullet to be spent.
I think that they are talking about that, if you get a hit with the ammo die used, can count that as a new hit, causing weapon damage instead of just using it to increase damage, since it is still just one target. At least that is what I think they are talking about. To me that is just twisting and exploiting the words. The idea of the rule is that you target one person, causing weapon damage and then you can use additional successes to increase that damage by +1. A success from an ammo die can be used to hit another target but then you need to have fired another round (one round per target). If you want to use the ammo die success against the original target, then it means +1 damage. If you want to, you can of course count the original target as a secondary target, letting both rounds cause weapon damage, but that requires (at least) two rounds.
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Raellus
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Re: Clarification for ROF 1 and ammo dice

Tue 26 Jul 2022, 18:14

I think that they are talking about that, if you get a hit with the ammo die used, can count that as a new hit, causing weapon damage instead of just using it to increase damage, since it is still just one target. At least that is what I think they are talking about. To me that is just twisting and exploiting the words. The idea of the rule is that you target one person, causing weapon damage and then you can use additional successes to increase that damage by +1. A success from an ammo die can be used to hit another target but then you need to have fired another round (one round per target). If you want to use the ammo die success against the original target, then it means +1 damage. If you want to, you can of course count the original target as a secondary target, letting both rounds cause weapon damage, but that requires (at least) two rounds.
Yes, that is what I meant. And yes, I forgot the rule about one round per target. I stand corrected.

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Tomas
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Re: Clarification for ROF 1 and ammo dice

Tue 26 Jul 2022, 20:21

Hi! This is being adressed in the reprint, and we will of course update the PDF as well and include in an official errata. The new wording on the relevant paragraphs on page 66 in the Player's Manual goes:

AMMO DICE: Firearms give you ammo dice to add to your skill roll. Six such tan colored D6s are included in this boxed set. You can add as many ammo dice to your attack as you like, from zero up to the rate of fire (RoF) rating of your weapon or the number of rounds left in the magazine minus one, whichever is lower. For example, if you have three rounds left, you can add up to two ammo dice.
If you have only one round left, you cannot add any ammo dice to our roll. In this case, or if you choose to use no ammo dice, only one (1) round of ammunition is used in the attack. This is typically only the case for sniper shots (page 63), but can also be useful if you are very low on ammo or your weapon is in a bad condition (low reliability rating).

AMMO SPENT: After your roll, you sum up the D6 digits on all of your ammo dice, then add one (1) to the result. This sum is the total amount of ammunition you have spent on the attack. If the sum on your ammo dice is equal to or more than the number of rounds you have left in the magazine, your magazine is completely emptied.

I hope this clears things up.
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Fenhorn
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Re: Clarification for ROF 1 and ammo dice

Tue 26 Jul 2022, 20:39

So no more two ammo dice with a dubbel-barrelled shotgun (you can still use one ammo dice if it is fully loaded).

Thanks Tomas (Looking forward to UO) :)
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Rupie
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Re: Clarification for ROF 1 and ammo dice

Wed 27 Jul 2022, 10:24

Thanks Tomas. It's an OK change but makes spending ammo dice compared to single shots even less appealing. Slightly.
 
baldrick0712
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Re: Clarification for ROF 1 and ammo dice

Fri 29 Jul 2022, 06:01

Re. "If you have only one round left, you cannot add any ammo dice to our roll"... I think you meant "to your roll".

Also, according to the new wording, a double-barrel shotgun (ROF: 2, MAG: 2) would roll 1 ammo die. If this is the intent of the wording, then fine.
 
Heffe
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Re: Clarification for ROF 1 and ammo dice

Mon 01 Aug 2022, 20:54

There's a ton more nuance to this change than one would initially realize. It means that the first round fired is essentially always the base dice roll with modifiers. Then the choice to add ammo dice means plainly adding more rounds onto the target. While it does very slightly increase the complexity of figuring out how many ammo dice to roll in a given round, it saves mental load across so many other areas of the system that it's well worth the trade off. It also allows FL to leave in the sections on heavy weapons in the rulebook, as well as leaving ROF of 1 for heavy weapons without causing any issues (though they may wish to still remove those for clarity).

Great change, guys.
 
baldrick0712
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Re: Clarification for ROF 1 and ammo dice

Wed 03 Aug 2022, 09:11

I agree it's a subtle but powerful change. The only other thing I would welcome is some clarification on vehicle cannons with both ROF and MAG greater than 1. For HE rounds I'm going to use the rules for the AGS-17 auto-grenade-launcher. For AP rounds I'm going to use the rules for how machineguns use ammo dice.

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