andresk
Topic Author
Posts: 177
Joined: Mon 05 Oct 2020, 16:38

Clarification for ROF 1 and ammo dice

Wed 16 Feb 2022, 16:15

Would like to get some clarification on this from the writers. Under ammo dice rules it says "You can never hit more targets than you have rounds of ammo in the magazine of your weapon" Now for weapons that have a magazine of one and a ROF 1, you can roll one ammo die. Ammo dice have two effects on success, as described in the rules. 1) increasing the damage of your base hit or 2) triggering an additional hit on the same target or hit a secondary target in the same hex.
The way I read the rule is if you have one bullet in the magazine and score a base hit, that is a "hit on a target" now if your ammo die also succeeds to me it makes sense that since you have no more ammo left, you can only trigger the effect 1, but not 2 because that would mean you hit the same target twice with only one round.
Others suggest that "hit more targets" only means you can't trigger an additional hit on a separate target, but can apply an additional base damage hit on the same target.
To me the latter interpretation just gives a random advantage to rolling ammo dice with only a single round in the magazine.

I know how I will interpret it, but it would be nice to have clarification if this is just a phrasing thing and "hit more targets" = "land more hits" or is it meant to be like the second interpretation described above? I'm not really looking for opinions here, just what the intent or vision of the writers was.

Edit: I might have phrased the OP a bit wrong. ROF has essentially nothing to do with this, this situation applies for any weapon that has a single round in the mag left. In that case you can use a maximum of one ammo die (thus the ROF1) the weapon's ROF can be anything, but at that point only one ammo die can be used.
Last edited by andresk on Thu 24 Mar 2022, 18:28, edited 1 time in total.
 
paladin2019
Posts: 432
Joined: Mon 07 Dec 2020, 09:16

Re: Clarification for ROF 1 and ammo dice

Thu 17 Feb 2022, 21:08

Except for some edge cases, TOW 2B's tandem charge warhead or a shotgun, for example, I can't think of any situation that two hits to the same target from a single round would make any kind of sense, even if the noted attacks would be simulated in the system by multiple hits.
 
andresk
Topic Author
Posts: 177
Joined: Mon 05 Oct 2020, 16:38

Re: Clarification for ROF 1 and ammo dice

Thu 17 Feb 2022, 23:49

ATGMs use heavy weapon rules and as such no ammo dice anyway, for shotguns yep maybe. But as stated above this is just to clear this one up on the writer's side, because it's phrased quite clearly in one way, but interpeting it in that way seems counter-intuitive.
 
baldrick0712
Posts: 672
Joined: Fri 28 May 2021, 12:29

Re: Clarification for ROF 1 and ammo dice

Fri 18 Feb 2022, 00:29

I would interpret, "You can never hit more targets than you have rounds of ammo in the magazine of your weapon" as actually meaning "You can never score more hits than you have rounds of ammo in the magazine of your weapon". Thus with a single round, you can only score a single hit with +1 to your base damage.
 
User avatar
omnipus
Posts: 742
Joined: Mon 22 Jun 2020, 20:58

Re: Clarification for ROF 1 and ammo dice

Fri 18 Feb 2022, 01:45

I think either interpretation is fine. I never literally interpret hit icons = bullets, in any case. But: "To me the latter interpretation just gives a random advantage to rolling ammo dice with only a single round in the magazine."

Yes, but also no. Rolling that die has the exact same odds of a mishap result, which significantly impacts the ability to push attack rolls or the consequences of doing so. The math still probably works out a little bit in favor of it being an overall advantage, but it's not always an advantage. If a player made a case to me I'd probably allow it.
Author, Central Poland Sourcebook -- now available on DriveThruRPG
 
User avatar
Ursus Maior
Posts: 278
Joined: Tue 25 Aug 2020, 20:58
Contact:

Re: Clarification for ROF 1 and ammo dice

Fri 18 Feb 2022, 14:39

Now, @andresk and I discussed this already on another platform and I'm in favor of the reading that, while you're not allowed hitting more targets than you have bullets, conferring multiple hits onto the same target is fine. In essence, the "original" target never counts as "targets" to me and I cannot read it in another way, otherwise the difference between singular and plural gets voided.

If one couldn't confer any additional hits in these cases, weapons with a MAG rating of 1 and ROF 1 would hardly make any sense. After all, what in the gun (mechanically) enables it to cause a deeper, more serious wound (aka a "critical injury"), but not a more superfluous wound (aka another "hit" from which armor would be deducted). Or in other words, why should secondary grazing hits - from shrapnel, glanced off hits or ricochets - be less likely than a deeper, seriously injuring wound? In essence, T2K firefights are highly abstracted and allow for large freedoms of narration. The secondary damage could even come from dinging your head while ducking for cover as the bullet comes flying (aka "going prone").

I know, I have dinged certain parts of my body while doing so during my service time, though it wasn't my head where that wretched NBC-gear bag dinged into regularly. ;)

I also subscribe to the argument by @omnipus on mishaps and pushing. The pushing mechanic is essential in the Y2K engine.
liber & infractus
 
baldrick0712
Posts: 672
Joined: Fri 28 May 2021, 12:29

Re: Clarification for ROF 1 and ammo dice

Fri 18 Feb 2022, 19:22

After all, what in the gun (mechanically) enables it to cause a deeper, more serious wound (aka a "critical injury")
I interpret successful ammo dice adding to damage as not necessarily meaning multiple rounds hitting in the same basic location (although it could be) but rather the round hit a vital area. Getting bullseyed in the chest is more likely to put you down compared to a wound slightly off centre.
 
User avatar
Ursus Maior
Posts: 278
Joined: Tue 25 Aug 2020, 20:58
Contact:

Re: Clarification for ROF 1 and ammo dice

Sat 19 Feb 2022, 02:04

After all, what in the gun (mechanically) enables it to cause a deeper, more serious wound (aka a "critical injury")
I interpret successful ammo dice adding to damage as not necessarily meaning multiple rounds hitting in the same basic location (although it could be) but rather the round hit a vital area. Getting bullseyed in the chest is more likely to put you down compared to a wound slightly off centre.
Sure thing, 4E certainly doesn't think of ammo die successes as correlating to a 1:1 bullet ratio. Otherwise the only option of spending these successes could be to inflict another hit with base damage. That's explicitly not how this works.

Some official statement might be nice.
liber & infractus
 
Requete
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat 19 Feb 2022, 01:37

Re: Clarification for ROF 1 and ammo dice

Sat 19 Feb 2022, 04:48

As a Ref would you allow someone with a 1 shot weapon to even roll an Ammo die? I don't think that I would permit it.
 
User avatar
Ursus Maior
Posts: 278
Joined: Tue 25 Aug 2020, 20:58
Contact:

Re: Clarification for ROF 1 and ammo dice

Sat 19 Feb 2022, 18:08

As a Ref would you allow someone with a 1 shot weapon to even roll an Ammo die? I don't think that I would permit it.
The question is not "would one allow it?", that's a question of houseruling. These weapons have are listed with ROF 1 and the question is, which options of weapons with greater MAG capacity cannot be chosen, when succeeding with an ammo die in such cases.
liber & infractus

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests