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Vader
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Re: Tomas spills some secrets about the RPG

Thu 28 Oct 2021, 20:00

And Technoir ;)

http://www.technoirrpg.com/

One of the most amazing games I’ve played. Sci-fi cyberpunk detective noir “ high-tech, hard-boiled roleplaying”

Ah, yes ... TechNoir!

I think I've got my name somewhere in that book as a "Connection", but the truth is, I've actually managed to forget all about it over the years.

But yes, it is fascinating. As I recall, it doesn't really talk all that much about the setting as such (not huge amounts of descriptive text generally ... it's quite a thin book), but the system (with "adjectives" and "verbs" and whatnot) feels like it really could be used to convey the "hard-boiled gumshoe detective story" feeling. Never got around to playing it though, so I couldn't really say. I'll have to take it down from my book shelf and reacquaint myself with it...

Thinking about it though, it does somehow underscore the difference: while Bladerunner is "Noir" ... a "Hard-Boiled Gumshoe Detective Story" it ain't.
TechNoir wouldn't be my first choice for a Bladerunner game.

And that also brings us back to the upcoming game and Tomas's various statements. My sense is that investigations do play a role in Bladerunner, but they are not at the core of the story — other genre elements are much more central.
Before you use the word "XENOMORPH" again, you should read this article through:

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/aliens-throwaway-line-confusion
 
leonpoi
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Re: Tomas spills some secrets about the RPG

Sat 30 Oct 2021, 05:53

For sure - technoir would not be my first choice for a blade runner game - I think it would work, but the system is pretty slim and light. It’s basically settingless but the “playbooks” (or whatever they are called) contain the setting - which again is pretty light; just enough to let you know what’s going on in terms of tech, the environment and social order and who’s who in the zoo.

I’ve played it 3 times. The 1st was probably one of the best rpg experiences I’ve ever had - the other 2 fell a little flat (which to be fair was relative to my first experience with it). I GMed. Some of the problem I think was my inexperience with detective-style / investigation games.

What it does really well is:
- leaning on contacts to get info - the act of leaning involves the contacts in the story directly or indirectly - they generally double cross you and/or get screwed over and compromised by helping you
- finding of clues - if there is a clue you will find it OR you will at least find something that drives the story forward - e.g. you don’t get the clue BUT you suspect that your contact is holding out about something …. you don’t know why, but it’s enough to make you get active on another lead, unless you want to push harder and threaten the relationship - in fact the game focuses on conflicts between people and has no rules for task resolution outside of conflicts (e.g. a hacking attempt would be against the counter hacker or however set up the security); you can either break down the door (because of your “tags”) - or you cannot
- the use of “tags” (aspects) to compel, block and drive certain actions. This takes a LOT to get used to but once you’ve played something like the Sprawl / apocalypse world or better a 2d20 modiphius you kind of get how it’s meant to work. There’s kind of no defined way to end a conflict - i.e. no health, no stress boxes etc - it just follows the narrative and this is a bit jarring at first. If I was to play it again I think I would get it and we’d be able to lean into it more and it would work
- that the only way of getting better and getting the juicy information is to get hurt in some way - sounds like that classic detective that is constantly getting black eyes, reputation damage, threats to their life etc etc
- it’s super easy to set up and make characters - they are done in about 15 minutes and they feel sufficiently fleshed out, they are already linked to contacts and protagonists in the game setting. People will know all the rules in 10 minutes.

What it does not do well is campaign play - or even re-using the same characters once an adventure is done. It’s really a bit like Alien in this way (but not because all the PCs are dead ;) but because the NPC personal mysteries have been uncovered and because character generation creates the links with NPCs - you could make it work but it wouldn’t feel right because the setting is created at the same time as character version).

So …. Here we have something where the core of the game is 1) investigations 2) personal conflicts leading to dramatic showdowns. It’s not a bladerunner feel I think. The Sprawl rpg does heaps of stuff right, and I love the way they deal with the corporations and emerging faction threats - but it’s not really about investigation and it’s cyberpunk and not noir as a feeling - so again - I don’t think that would work either !!
 
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aramis
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Re: Tomas spills some secrets about the RPG

Sat 07 May 2022, 13:56

Thematically, separating "Bladerunner" from "Cyberpunk" I feel is right ... as I said before, Bladerunner, to me, is "proto-Cyberpunk". It predates the genre; certainly influences it, even defines certain aspects of it, but there is no absolute equality there.
It really doesn't predate the CP genre; the earliest novels in that genre are circa 1980, but none of them fit the 1988 RTG version of the genre. Gernsbeck Continuum (W. Gibson), Tales of Houdini (R Rucker), and Petra (G. Bear) all predate Blade Runner, and are included in Mirrorshades: The Cyberpunk Anthology, collated by B. Stirling in '86.

Blade Runner does fit that early era definition of Cyberpunk; RTalsorian redefined the Genre with the game, narrowing it a lot, but Blade Runner is far from the only 80's techno-noir to be included as Cyberpunk, while lacking the cyber side of things...
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Vader
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Re: Tomas spills some secrets about the RPG

Mon 09 May 2022, 01:19

Thematically, separating "Bladerunner" from "Cyberpunk" I feel is right ... as I said before, Bladerunner, to me, is "proto-Cyberpunk". It predates the genre; certainly influences it, even defines certain aspects of it, but there is no absolute equality there.
It really doesn't predate the CP genre; the earliest novels in that genre are circa 1980, but none of them fit the 1988 RTG version of the genre. Gernsbeck Continuum (W. Gibson), Tales of Houdini (R Rucker), and Petra (G. Bear) all predate Blade Runner, and are included in Mirrorshades: The Cyberpunk Anthology, collated by B. Stirling in '86.

Blade Runner does fit that early era definition of Cyberpunk; RTalsorian redefined the Genre with the game, narrowing it a lot, but Blade Runner is far from the only 80's techno-noir to be included as Cyberpunk, while lacking the cyber side of things...

I believe it is generally recognised that the genesis of Cyberpunk as its own genre, separate from the larger movement of New Wave sci-fi, coincides with the publication of Neuromancer (Gibson, 1984).
Although, as with most everything else, this work did of course not simply appear suddenly out of a vacuum, but was preceded by a body of work by various authors (including Gibson himself) that had been building up to it for the better part of two decades — work that predated, but influenced and helped define, the genre-to-be; just like Bladerunner itself.

The Mirrorshades anthology “ret-conned” a few such “proto-Cyberpunk” novellas into the genre.

I would state with some emphasis that it is highly erroneous to posit the existence of a defined Cyberpunk genre prior even to the existence of the actual term “Cyberpunk” — anything “cyberpunkoid” preceding the term thus by definition having to be termed “proto-Cyberpunk”.
And to the best of my knowledge, the word had never appeared in print prior to 1983, when it appeared as the title of a short story in Amazing Stories. That title then was later coined as the collective term for the new genre, which only really coalesced with the publication of Neuromancer in the year after.

Hence, I must challenge the previous poster to support his categorical assertion that Bladerunner, in fact, "really doesn't predate the Cyberpunk genre" with evidence, and show the term “Cyberpunk” as having been in general use as a genre designation already by 1982.

Mike Pondsmith’s Cyberpunk, aka. The Role Playing Game of the Dark Future, is an entirely different matter altogether.
While Mike did write his own Cyberpunk setting for the game, all the key elements he worked with had been rattling around in the genre since the beginning. The game didn't redefine or re-create the genre in any way; nor could I see it ever tried to.
On the whole, I fail to see the relevance of bringing it up in the discussion at hand in the first place.
Before you use the word "XENOMORPH" again, you should read this article through:

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/aliens-throwaway-line-confusion
 
CitizenZero
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Re: Tomas spills some secrets about the RPG

Wed 11 May 2022, 15:24

Hello! New to the forums as I've been pulled into the Free League universe with the Kickstarter for the Blade Runner game. Saw the original movie when it first came out (I was 12), and have devoured most all the content around the franchise. I'm also a native of LA so have some knowledge/affinity for the setting.

Great discussion here, wanted to add my two cents.

I agree, the core essence of BR are the replicants, the Blade Runners, LA, and noir. I think the job of Free League is to create a framework with those elements, and then for the players to fill it in as they see fit. I love a lot of the ideas shared here, and will add some of my thoughts.

I think you can really lean in to the Hollywood piece of LA. What does the TV/movie industry look like here? Perhaps a studio is exclusively using replicants for actors. How does that go over? The death of a studio head would be a great investigation. Beautiful actress as Femme Fatale is obvious as well.

Watch Hollywood Confidential and Black Dahlia for noir movies that lean into this. Season 2 of True Detective might also be worth a watch to understand how local government and real estate rub up against each other in LA.

Journalism is another area I haven't seen touched on. Maybe you could play a journalist who teams up with a Blade Runner to solve a case? Or a journalist could be a type of antagonist to your Blade Runner?

Race also plays an important role in the history of the city of LA. What's happening with the Black, Latino, and Asian communities in Blade Runner LA?

How about religion? Maybe there is a replicant high up in the Scientology religion?. Tie that to Hollywood via a Tom Cruise type.

While certainly a background factor in the Blade Runner universe, what if you pulled the environmental movement to the forefront? Certainly LA could have a militarized version of Green Peace in this world.

Ok, that's all for now. Thanks for listening.
 
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Angelman
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Re: Tomas spills some secrets about the RPG

Wed 11 May 2022, 15:44

How about religion? Maybe there is a replicant high up in the Scientology religion?. Tie that to Hollywood via a Tom Cruise type.
If you wanna go full Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep, there's always the Mercerism religion :)
"And the rain sets in,
it's the Angelman.
I'm deranged".
--David Bowie, I'm Deranged
 
CitizenZero
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Re: Tomas spills some secrets about the RPG

Wed 11 May 2022, 15:55

How about religion? Maybe there is a replicant high up in the Scientology religion?. Tie that to Hollywood via a Tom Cruise type.
If you wanna go full Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep, there's always the Mercerism religion :)
Oh, right, good point. IIRC Mercerism (SPOILER ALERT) was faked. That would be perfect for a Hollywood tie-in. Imagine your character discovering that his religion was a fraud. Very noir.
 
paladin2019
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Re: Tomas spills some secrets about the RPG

Wed 11 May 2022, 20:29

I believe it is generally recognised that the genesis of Cyberpunk as its own genre, separate from the larger movement of New Wave sci-fi, coincides with the publication of Neuromancer (Gibson, 1984).
Genres are named well after they appear. It is in our nature not to categorize things until we are aware of their existence. Literary movements are no exception. That the term wasn't used until X date does not mean nothing previous to that date cannot be considered part of it. Just because fantasy wasn't recognized a genre separate from science fiction before the mid-eighties doesn't mean Lord of the Rings isn't a fantasy novel.
 
baldrick0712
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Re: Tomas spills some secrets about the RPG

Wed 11 May 2022, 21:37

Do we know if the game will have a default starting date? The franchise canon at this stage spans 30 years from 2019 to 2049 and includes a number of distinct phases: the Nexus 6 Replicants of the original movie (4 years lifespan), the Nexus 7 prototype (Rachael) that could have children, the Nexus 8 Replicants in production from 2020 to 2023 (after which Replicants were banned following a Nexus 8 terror attack called "The Blackout"), and finally 2028 onwards when Wallace Corporation successfully argued that Replicants were necessary to avoid catastrophic ecological collapse and started producing Nexus 9s.
 
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Angelman
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Re: Tomas spills some secrets about the RPG

Wed 11 May 2022, 22:51

Do we know if the game will have a default starting date? The franchise canon at this stage spans 30 years from 2019 to 2049 and includes a number of distinct phases: the Nexus 6 Replicants of the original movie (4 years lifespan), the Nexus 7 prototype (Rachael) that could have children, the Nexus 8 Replicants in production from 2020 to 2023 (after which Replicants were banned following a Nexus 8 terror attack called "The Blackout"), and finally 2028 onwards when Wallace Corporation successfully argued that Replicants were necessary to avoid catastrophic ecological collapse and started producing Nexus 9s.
The kickstarter blurb states the following:
"BLADE RUNNER – The Roleplaying Game

Walk the neon-noir streets of Los Angeles 2037 in the official BLADE RUNNER RPG from Free League Publishing and Alcon Entertainment"
"And the rain sets in,
it's the Angelman.
I'm deranged".
--David Bowie, I'm Deranged

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