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Vader, I think we agree. The question isn’t if Bladerunner is based on the film noir tradition (it certainly is). It’s more about how the game should reflect the genre and its many tropes. Personally, I think it’s a good idea to have a close look at both Philip Marlowe and Chandler’s fictional 1940s L. A. (not the same as the historical city, although there are many connections). To avoid getting way off topic, I will create new threads for those topics. Hopefully, we can continue our noir discussion there. It certainly is a very rich tradition, full of cool concepts.

Vader, I think we agree.

Oh, I don't think there can be any argument on that score — we certainly do.

Now having listened to the TST interview, too ... still loving most of what I hear, especially what Tomas is saying about the heavy focus on deep character development, and a lightweight system, as I feel that's exactly what this setting and theme demands.

Thematically, separating "Bladerunner" from "Cyberpunk" I feel is right ... as I said before, Bladerunner, to me, is "proto-Cyberpunk". It predates the genre; certainly influences it, even defines certain aspects of it, but there is no absolute equality there.

The only things I'm missing so far is explicit discussion of the aforementioned Noir aspects, and the idea of approaching the story themes from something else than specifically an investigation angle; certainly playing characters other than Bladerunners.

It's a rich world; the films show this with splendid clarity. I hope the game will allow a bit more ... diversity, for lack of a better word, in which viewpoints players get to approach it from.

I guess the lore of this franchise isn’t as big as the Alien lore, so stretching too far away from the Bladerunner unit will probably be hard. It might just feel like something that isn’t noir (anything off world for example). But if I just brainstorm a couple career paths for this setting, it could be these:

1. Replicant rebels.
2. Conmen.
3. Private detectives (working for the same bureau).
4. A unit at the LAPD Homicide departement.
5. Corporate spies.
6. A criminal street gang.
7. A crime syndicate.
8. Underworld animoid dealers.
9. A corporate heist crew.
10. An illegal gambling dive.
11. A corrupt boxing club.
12. A crew working for a corrupt mayor.

Don't forget that you can mix and match characters into the same "crew" — e.g. a Bladerunner, a homicide detective, a street cop, and a PI getting involved in the same investigation, for the basic "Case File" based campaign.

But think that basically any of the "civilians" we see in the movies could be protagonists in their own stories, especially if we based stories around other frameworks than just investigations. Imagine genetic engineers like Sebastian or Chew or the animal designers at the market. Or a crew around a seedy bar, like Taffey Lewis and his employees. Or even Joi, that fascinating AI pocket assistant in the sequel (easily the most interesting character in the whole movie, to my mind). Or the retired Gaff. Any of these, and dozens more only glimpsed peripherally, could be mixed into a group, or even form a group of their own thrown into a suitably Noir story without a single investigator-type character in it.
While Noir is closely related to the "Hardbolied" detective story genre, they aren't identical. Far from all Noir stories revolve around investigations.

Well, creating career paths in the way I just did, doesn’t mean that you can’t mix people from various paths in a the same group (although some will most likely work together in their unit or crew). The career paths (the term comes from Alien) is more a way to structure what the PCs might be if they aren’t Bladerunners.

It also seems to be specific for this game that groups aren’t as central or as tight as in most other RPGs. It’s an interesting take, but I think it should be possible to form a bigger group, just because RPGs are something social. Would it be possible to roleplay a story that’s more like a noir novel about lonely people who only seldomly meet? Maybe, maybe not. They solo play (GM + a single player) that has been mentioned could probably fit the setting well. That would also open up for quite unconventional PCs. You could even run your own laundry business, and still add noir elements to make it interesting. Maybe it’s someone who lives in the Bradbury Building.

The MYZ Elysium setting included some good sandbox/ideas for an investigative playing style in a noir/dystopian setting if I remember correctly, so the FL will probably get this right. Excited!

The MY Elysium setting included some good sandbox/ideas for an investigative noir/dystopian setting if I remember correctly so the FL will probably get this right! Excited!

Likely you are correct, but being myself not familiar with Elysium and thus not able to decipher the reference, I'd just highlight that "Noir" does not necessarily equate "Dystopian", and thus, doing the latter well doesn't automatically translate well into the former.

While there is a lot of discussion (and has been for decades) about what Noir really is about, I believe few would disagree that a major, recurring theme centres around looking at the world from an angle that highlights its fetid backside of cynicism, greed, and corruption in a suitably low-key light (SWIDT?) ... Men are disillusioned, women are manipulative; the world itself is not necessarily a dystopia per se, but it is painted in a stark palette of naked violence, sexuality, tobacco, booze (and possibly other drugs), as well as crime and murder.

The difference between Noir and Dystopia is sort of like the difference between Bladerunner and Brazil. A Noir story can still have an upbeat ending; a Dystopian story ... can't, really; not if it's done properly.

There wasn’t a lot of noir styled content in the YZ Elysium game. And the stuff we find there doesn’t really tell us what to expect from the upcoming Bladerunner RPG. It will certainly be a game in another genre.

Vader, I think most people would agree that film noir is what you just described. But what I’m thinking of in this particular case, isn’t just how all those genre themes and tropes should be made playable. It’s also a matter of how the noir stuff should match the other, dystopian elements. Or to be even more specific: how the noir stuff could be combined with the replicants. I think Bladerunner is something quite specific in that way: you got to have either bladerunners or replicants (or both) in a scenario. Without any of those it’s not really Bladerunner. Maybe you can create the right feeling by working with corporate power or corrupt cops, but then you might end up with a more generic cyberpunk game.

So what I’m hoping for is a game that not only describes or lists what dystopian L. A. noir is. I want a game that from a game point of view (rules, scenarios, tools for creating your own campaigns etc.) focuses on what’s specific for Bladerunner. You should be able to recreate Marlowesque noir in combination with replicants. That’s why I started a thread about how to use memories as a game feature. Memories are just as important as blasters and flying cars.

That's a bit ambiguous, I feel. On one hand, it is as you say: Bladerunner is about Bladerunners and Replicants. But on the other hand, the same is true for ALIEN: it is about the Alien and WY conspiracies. And yet, it seems to me the general feeling is that if either or both of those elements were to be found in every single adventure, then it would risk growing very old, very soon.

What is true for this particular game? I don't know. But I feel the issue isn't all that clear cut.

Did you check out the Altered Carbon RPG? I recall it does a fair job of showing how Marlow-esque "Neo-Noir" themes could fit into gameplay and character creation in a dystopian future setting. Much of those principles (albeit not specifics, of course) could certainly be fit into a Bladerunner setting in a very ... Bladerunner way, I feel.

My inclination is however to think that the Bladerunner setting is about more than just Rep-Detects and Replicants. Without making it generic Cyberpunk because, well, Bladerunner isn't generic Cyberpunk — or, in fact, actually Cyberpunk in the first place.