User avatar
Vader
Posts: 944
Joined: Fri 15 Nov 2019, 14:11
Location: The Frozen North

Re: Tomas spills some secrets about the RPG

Wed 27 Jul 2022, 01:08

But I am not sure why you'd think Roy's statement it misses the mark - since the full quote (At least in Final Cut) is:
"Quite an experience to live in fear isn't it? ... that's what it is to be a slave."

And then there's the opening crawl:
Replicants were used Off-world as slave labor in the hazardous exploration and colonization of other planets.
After a bloody mutiny by a Nexus 6 combat team in an Off-world colony.

That's a separate event long before Roy & co jumped a shuttle.

If you pile in Blade Runner 2049, Calantha, and the other Replicant Underground stuff - it's seemed to me that the slavery/revolt was always present and growing theme .. bringing with it the -punk aspects, not just the transhumanism.

Sticking the finger to authority - Roy & co refuse to accept their lot, then double-down and kill some folks and come to Earth despite the prohibition.

And, one last sticking it to authority in Blade Runner that is not very obvious ... Tyrell himself flaunting the prohibition by making replicants on Earth anyway rather than moving offworld, and worse ... cloning himself INTO a replicant, if you include the offscreen deleted scenes idea of Roy proceeding to Tyrell's cryo vault and killing his original after killing his replicant.

“I want more life, fucker!”

Not “I want to be free”.

Yes, Nexus 6es are rebelling, but in Blade Runner (1982) we’re never explicitly told why — except in the above quote.

Roy’s “quite an experience…” quote (it’s the same in all versions, I believe) misses because of that very thing. It is more a philosophical rumination on the status of being a slave — it falls well short of the mark of being a desperate cry for freedom (qv. Braveheart…).

Just because they recognise being slaves, they do not automatically rebel. With the emotional frame of reference of a toddler, why would they?
Apart from which, slavery has existed throughout human history, all the way until the previous century (and still does, in some parts). Slave rebellions however have been an exception, not the norm.

And I’ll say again, I’m as always sticking to what we see on-screen in the original movie. Comics, novels, the sequel, etc; now the RPG … they all present their own (not seldom mutually contradictory) visions of what might be, but only Blade Runner (1982) shows us what is.
Before you use the word "XENOMORPH" again, you should read this article through:

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/aliens-throwaway-line-confusion
 
User avatar
ExileInParadise
Posts: 247
Joined: Sun 10 Nov 2019, 01:05
Location: Texas
Contact:

Re: Tomas spills some secrets about the RPG

Wed 27 Jul 2022, 06:42

Sorry, I think you've missed it and are trying to define things too narrowly and cherrypick.

With that I will sum-up by saying that I presented my case for revolution being present even in the original movie - as you seem bent on.

And you ignored that and moved to what you wanted to focus on instead - and I feel you even made my point for me - Roy doesn't accept his fate as designed by Tyrelll.

He wants to live *and be free to continue being Roy - doing whatever etc etc.

But, when you start cherry picking to say that even the sequel *produced by Ridley Scott* and meeting the most prime criteria for being canon - that is being on screen - including Deckard himself and more ... you reject that because it doesn't fit your head canon.

Fair enough - head canon is just that. But constantly paring even other canon pieces out to fit head canon leaves no one else anywhere to go other than to agree with you or be wrong.

So, best to bow out now amicably.

We both enjoy the material - and have drawn our own conclusions from it - but it seems a bridge too far for those conclusions to parallel.

This will be my last post/reply to this thread.
We live, as we dream -- alone. ~ Joseph Conrad
 
User avatar
Vader
Posts: 944
Joined: Fri 15 Nov 2019, 14:11
Location: The Frozen North

Re: Tomas spills some secrets about the RPG

Wed 27 Jul 2022, 10:25

Sorry, I think you've missed it and are trying to define things too narrowly and cherrypick.



But, when you start cherry picking to say that even the sequel *produced by Ridley Scott* and meeting the most prime criteria for being canon - that is being on screen - including Deckard himself and more ... you reject that because it doesn't fit your head canon.



So, best to bow out now amicably.



This will be my last post/reply to this thread.

“Amicably”. After having decided to deliver a slap to the face and then make a major drama of leaving the room in a huff, without even the common decency of accepting a response.

Right.

Well…

Were I in your position, Sir, I would not be quite so eager to attach words like “cherry picking” or “head canon” to people around me.

Many fans seem to agree that much of the material that has come after the original movie — including material now counted as canonical — is contradictory.
In that circumstance, to reference that material and “pile in Blade Runner 2049, Calantha, and the other Replicant Underground stuff” and so forth, as you do, not I, becomes to my mind problematic. The only way I can see to reasonably compile any kind of cohesive “canon” out of such a body of material is precisely that: to keep what makes sense to you, discard what doesn’t, and create your own subjective canon out of whatever bits remain.

For my own part however, I have chosen to not enter into that game in the first place. I simply let the original movie be the absolute adjudicator, and leave it at that.

That you then should accuse me of “cherry picking” and applying “head canon” is wonderfully ironic.


As for the one single issue of the topic at hand that you actually do bring up — I take it then you concede the point that Blade Runner indeed is not Cyberpunk — no, I did not ignore it, as you accuse. I addressed it head on — and should you endeavour to read it with a little bit more care, I believe you will find it does in fact not “make your point for you”; rather the contrary:

“I want more life, fucker!”

Not “I want to be free”.


Roy rebels because he wants more life. Could hardly be stated much plainer than that, could it?
Nowhere is it said that he wants self-determination, or even would be extremely interested in it at this point in his life.

He has the emotional life of a four-year-old, in the intellect of a highly intelligent adult — and he is realising that just when he is beginning to be able to relate to the world around him, it is going to be taken away.

He wants more of it. He wants it to go on, not just cease!

That is the Nexus 6es’ predicament, and why they, with Roy among them, are rebelling — at least, by all the information we get in the movie.

This “longing for self-determination” assumption is nothing but that: an assumption, not unequivocally substantiated by anything seen or heard in the movie. Not entirely sure if even the sequel has anything on it.


Also consider this: Tyrell Corp’s product development is working to fix the problem with the Nexus 6 and the “strange obsession” that is causing them to rebel.
How do they propose to accomplish this? By gifting them memories. Also plainly stated in the movie.

Now, how would that solve a craving for self-determination? Can’t really say it would, now would it? If anything, it would make it worse, wouldn’t it?

However, it might well solve the problem of a deficient emotional maturity, by giving them a “cushion” of past to relate to — they might not be so desperate for life to go on, as in their minds, they’ve already lived.


So, yes: Roy “wants to live and continue being Roy”, absolutely, for certain. Agree a hundred percent, as they say nowadays.

But the “…*and be free…” bit is, to join in on this particularly eloquent rhetoric of yours, nothing but your own, personal head canon.
Before you use the word "XENOMORPH" again, you should read this article through:

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/aliens-throwaway-line-confusion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest