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Angelman
Posts: 358
Joined: Sun 11 Apr 2021, 12:46

Re: Xenomorph and Pulse Rifles

Mon 13 Jun 2022, 11:45

If you want to have a dakka-dakka-alien-brains-everywhere game, I think the solution is really easy. Just set their Health to 1. Every time you penetrate the xeno armor, squish goes the alien and you've got a video-game style playing mod, no problem.
"And the rain sets in,
it's the Angelman.
I'm deranged".
--David Bowie, I'm Deranged
 
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Vader
Posts: 944
Joined: Fri 15 Nov 2019, 14:11
Location: The Frozen North

Re: Xenomorph and Pulse Rifles

Mon 13 Jun 2022, 15:31

If you want to have a dakka-dakka-alien-brains-everywhere game, I think the solution is really easy. Just set their Health to 1. Every time you penetrate the xeno armor, squish goes the alien and you've got a video-game style playing mod, no problem.

Do you, then, disagree with the fundamental analysis of what we see on-screen in ALIENS (see the Command Centre battle and Ripley's infiltration into the Atmosphere Processor), that the creatures are highly vulnerable to even short bursts of pulse rifle fire?

Or do you feel the movie is irrelevant to informing the tone and "reality" of the game?

If the latter, you are in good company here, of course.
Before you use the word "XENOMORPH" again, you should read this article through:

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/aliens-throwaway-line-confusion
 
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Angelman
Posts: 358
Joined: Sun 11 Apr 2021, 12:46

Re: Xenomorph and Pulse Rifles

Mon 13 Jun 2022, 19:19

Oh, it is definitelly irrelevant, IMHO - make the game what you want. To me, Alien RPG is a horror game, not an action adventure thingy, and I need the xenos to be deadly and frightening to run the games I want to run, and for my purpose I don't find the xenos overpowered at all, and the fact that they are tonally written to fit Alien rather than Aliens works well for me. That, and my players are capable of holding their own against xenos in most circumstances, although I haven't flooded them with loads of xenos yet, to be fair.

Anyway, make the game your own and tweak the rules to fit your vision.
"And the rain sets in,
it's the Angelman.
I'm deranged".
--David Bowie, I'm Deranged
 
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Grimmshade
Posts: 209
Joined: Wed 05 May 2021, 23:15

Re: Xenomorph and Pulse Rifles

Mon 13 Jun 2022, 22:45

I think I'm in agreement with Angelman. I like Alien better than Aliens. (Not that I don't like Aliens) I'm glad that one Xeno can be terrifying in this game. I don't mind if it doesn't fit exactly what I see in Aliens, because if I want to give some canon fodder baddies for my players I'll just make some other warrior drones type of Xeno that's easily dispatched.
I just read Colony War, and Xenos that die by the bucketload are pretty boring.
 
bfm75
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon 10 Jun 2019, 20:22

Re: Xenomorph and Pulse Rifles

Mon 13 Jun 2022, 23:51

I completely agree with making the game your our, and if you like the rules as written, then great, the more power to you, go and enjoy the hell out of them them.

I do, however, have a problem with the rules as written, and I’m therefore look for a way to make the rules work for me. I don’t agree with the “this is an Alien game, not an Aliens game”, I know the writer as said as much, but I don’t agree with it. To my mind both Alien and Aliens are canon, and I don’t think the way that the toughness/combat prowess of the Xenos portrayed in the two movies are incompatible. We don’t see the effect of weapons on the Xeno in Alien, not because the crew of the Nostromo didn’t have weapons, they did, but because they did not dare use them. Acid blood that can easily eat through the hull of a space ship should be pretty scary. Second, if they had tried to user their weapons, it would probability not have made much of a difference, there are hardly any direct encounters with the Xeno, where it didn’t relay on sheath and surprise attacks. So I don’t think that weapons are ineffective against Xenos is canon in Alien, because we don’t see weapons used against it (flamer excluded of cause).

In Aliens, to my mind, we see that handguns are of limited effectiveness against Xenos and that Pulse rifles are completely ineffective against the Queen.

But back the rules as written. I think one of the problems is that the pulse rifles was written as being the standard weapons, the longsword or the Lasgun of the setting, where it really should have been the +1 longsword (I haven’t play D&D in ages, so my allegory might fall a bit apart here :) ) or the Bolter of the setting. But just bumping of the damage of the Pulse rifle will just auto take out any human in the setting, due to the way that Year Zero handles damage, game-wise that might not be too fun.
Also to Xenos have way too much health and/or armor, it is easer to take out an APC then it is to kill an Solder Xeno.

I also don’t think that because it is a horror game (on which I completely agree) that the enemies/creatures should be bullet sponges, to me a bullet sponge is more boring then it is scary.

But, again, if you enjoy the rules as written, then this thread might not be for you. I’m hoping to get some inspiration on how to get the rules to work for me and my players.
 
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Grimmshade
Posts: 209
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Re: Xenomorph and Pulse Rifles

Tue 14 Jun 2022, 02:59

I'm not sure that the hypothetical that's being talked here works out in actual play. All of the PC's survived Destroyer of Worlds when I ran it, and they fought a lot of Xenos, and I pressed them pretty hard.

But, if you want Xenos to die to bullets more, why not just reduce armor and hit points?
 
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Vader
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Location: The Frozen North

Re: Xenomorph and Pulse Rifles

Tue 14 Jun 2022, 09:27

I don’t agree with the “this is an Alien game, not an Aliens game”, I know the writer as said as much, but I don’t agree with it.

I'm with you on this. If this isn't an ALIENS game ... why release a Colonial Marines Operations Manual? How does a Destroyer of Worlds fit into the picture? Why include a "cinematic" scenario literally set inside ALIENS's sets?

Obviously the de facto intention of the game is to encompass both movies equally — i.e., to attract fans of both movies without bias. One might perhaps have hoped for the rules to provide more explicit options to "dial in" the type of game a particular GM wants to run, but small matter — one can always home-brew whatever isn't in the game out-of-the-box. As reiterated in something like every other post throughout this thread.


It is unquestionable that these guys have a number of highly superior qualities as designers of immersive and compelling TTRPGs, as evidenced by the fact that they in short order have become one of the world's most successful TTRPG publishers.

Alas however, as we've had opportunity to observe now and again these last few years, managing continuity and maintaining consistency with the settings they undertake to portray does not fall among Ligan's greatest strengths. Possibly because — along the same lines as what Angelman said — in weighing design choices and development resource allocation, the setting continuity simply isn't regarded as an overbearing priority.

But again: small matter — as a consumer, one might of course always hope to be paying for a game better suited to one's own particular preferences, but failing that, one is free to home-brew whatever one feels is lacking.
Before you use the word "XENOMORPH" again, you should read this article through:

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/aliens-throwaway-line-confusion
 
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Angelman
Posts: 358
Joined: Sun 11 Apr 2021, 12:46

Re: Xenomorph and Pulse Rifles

Tue 14 Jun 2022, 09:52

just bumping of the damage of the Pulse rifle will just auto take out any human in the setting
I suggest you lower the Xeno's Health to 1. That's the sleakest and most elegant way, game mechanically, to make them more squishy.
"And the rain sets in,
it's the Angelman.
I'm deranged".
--David Bowie, I'm Deranged
 
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Fenhorn
Moderator
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Joined: Thu 24 Apr 2014, 15:03
Location: Sweden

Re: Xenomorph and Pulse Rifles

Tue 14 Jun 2022, 09:59

Andrew Gaska said that they had to make some compromises in order to create a setting out of this. So the alien in the game is probably weaker than in Alien but stronger than those in Aliens. Continuity was not something that bothers them that much when they made the movies.
“Thanks for noticin' me.” - Eeyore
 
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Vader
Posts: 944
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Location: The Frozen North

Re: Xenomorph and Pulse Rifles

Tue 14 Jun 2022, 11:15

Continuity was not something that bothers them that much when they made the movies.

Well ... yes and no. Between ALIEN and ALIENS, I see no real continuity errors that aren't purely cosmetic (such as the exact design of the Narcissus).
Apart from the obvious, of course: the design of the Alien itself, and the reproductive cycle vs. as shown in the Extended Edition of ALIEN.

The Alien in ALIEN acts alone, and is much larger than those in ALIENS. The skull carapace is different, as is the configuration of back spines and certain other details.
The Aliens in ALIENS act in the context of a hive, and grow tiny by comparison. They also move substantially differently from "Big Chap".

So ... Cameron thus re-designing the Alien might certainly be seen as a breach of continuity. But it might also be regarded as an "out" for him to treat them a bit differently — they might be different.

For all we know, bullets might have been able to rip "Big Chap" to shreds just as easily just as easily as the "Warriors" in ALIENS. We never see anyone try, for good reasons. All we do se is what bullets do to the "Warriors".
For all we know, "Big Chap" might actually be a "Queen larva" — a proto-stage for a Queen Alien, and thus pretty impervious to bullets and able to reproduce independently. We are free to speculate — the films don't say one way or another.

There is therefore no reason to assume that the Alien as seen in ALIEN must react to bullets the same way as the Aliens as seen in ALIENS — there is no necessary contradiction, hence no necessary discontinuity. Thus, they can be reconciled, without necessarily compromising at all.


Either way, I believe game designers should be in a different situation from filmmakers. In my opinion, it behooves them to rationalise any apparent discontinuities as well as they are able, rather than use them as an excuse to shrug away continuity themselves.

But, again — such is my preference. For me, continuity is important.
Before you use the word "XENOMORPH" again, you should read this article through:

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/aliens-throwaway-line-confusion
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