Jakob
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Re: Why Vaesen exist, a bit simple?

Fri 04 Sep 2020, 09:39

I must confess I'm also not that keen on the "official" explanation for the existence of Vaesen ... it just seems a slightly tired cliche to have supernatural creatues exist because people believe in them. If doubt that most players would be surprised at it.
I might go for a just slightly different take, though: Vaesen get the shape they manifest in from belief. And if there's no belief to give the shape, they might remain something shapeless, but powerful - spirits that drive people to suicide or murder or even worse. That way, the characters migh figure out at some point that it is a good thing when the Vaesen are given shape, because that turns them into creatures that are actually more amenable to humans than their "natural" form is.
 
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aramis
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Re: Why Vaesen exist, a bit simple?

Fri 04 Sep 2020, 10:13

Noting that the first Vaesen adventure is a former human manufactured by 3 other humans' magic...

He's there because they believed enough to create him for some nefarious purpose (which I hope has further story element presence - what the hell was it he couldn't envision himself doing, and they'd kill him over?)

It could be that they don't need current belief - they exist because they were created by the minds of men and once created, have independent existence. This is the approach I take to the text.

But also, many may be excorporated humans, finding shape in twisting forms rather than crossing to what ever just reward their faith would provide. Considering the nature of many, it would seem many a bad person would fit this mold.

I'll note, however, for one of my groups, I borrowed an image from Dead Like Me... Oscar's departure was visible - the light he saw was Paris in the summer...
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Smith & Wesson: the original point and click interface...
 
Rob-H
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Re: Why Vaesen exist, a bit simple?

Sat 27 Nov 2021, 00:16

A recent finder of system so the reason for late posting.

I agree that "they exist because you believe in them" can be too simple. There is text in the rules that they have their own ways/places etc. It's also interesting that belief can create something "so fully with its foibles etc." Ironically, perhaps folklorists writing it all down and systemizing the stories etc. created more/

I also agree that "nailing it down" too much is not necessary and also something to leave to different campaigns.

Is this all because of a particular conjunction of planets and stars building towards something.

I like idea that they 'pre-exist' and manifest in our world through belief but to so manifest they must accept the 'bargain' of being bound into the forms the beliefs expect, most of them over time even forgetting their original world, and the 'grand scheme' being about more coming over or not?
 
Byrax
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Re: Why Vaesen exist, a bit simple?

Tue 30 Nov 2021, 12:08

Both Fables and American Goods have ideas/rationale worth looking into for background as to why Vaesens exist.
 
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Ftahleson
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Re: Why Vaesen exist, a bit simple?

Fri 28 Jan 2022, 07:37

I too have noted an issue with the 'simplistic' reasoning for the existence of the Vaesen framed in the books description.

The issue, the chicken and the egg, Vaesen exist because people believe they do.... and given that only those with "The Sight" can actually see them, then arguably they exist because the Players believe they do, and no matter how long they fight of Vaesen that circle will keep coming around. As a Game concept, the applied explanation falls flat on its face.... It is both a completely predictable shock ending, coupled with an added stagnation that the easiest way to defeat any Vaesen is to convince people who cant see them anyway, that they don't exist and never did in the first place. Which should be relatively easy to do because the setting outright points out that the problem has been created by people adopting the scientific and stopping believing in the old ways. How exactly can Vaesen be acting up because people stopped believing in the Old ways, when they exist purely because people think they do?

"In the nineteenth century, Scandinavia is changed by industrialization, war, and revolutions, and new ways of thinking and understanding the world are spreading through its universities. Old truths are being questioned."

This indicates the industrialization and Science have had humans question the reality to the Vaesen existing in the first place. In fact they even say people have forgotten how to deal with the Vaesen, likely because they stopped worrying about fiction and superstitions. and yet somehow they became more powerful.

Regardless on how "Fleshed out" you feel this should be or how "vague" they want to leave it to the GMs the creationist aspect is contradictory to the entire premise and should be addressed on some level for clarity.

Not that I don't like the game, I love it.... but this is a serious Plot Hole.

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