Forum

lupex · Fri 05 Jan 2018, 13:52

I would prefer it if talents and talent ranks cost 5Xp, the same as MY0 and Coriolis, this keeps the games consistent and helps to see the value of talents.

Fenhorn · Fri 05 Jan 2018, 14:05

If talents and skill both cost 5 XP then it would be no point to, for example, take a talent that gives you +1 to a specific weapon when you can spend the same number of XP to increase the skill and that way benefit all weapons. In MYZ, where skills and talents both costs 5 XP have this problem. Talents that gives you +1 is pointless, at least as long as you can increase the skill. To cut the cost for talents to 3 XP solve that problem.

lupex · Fri 05 Jan 2018, 14:15

Which then makes it a no-brainer to always take the +1 talents as its a saving of 2xp each time.

My additional concern is that there is scope to earn up to 9xp per session, which would mean a player could then buy 3 new talents, speeding up character progression considerably. The 5XP requirement to increase skills or gain new talents is a good limiter on character progression, it means characters can increase by a small amount each session without becoming overpowered too quickly.

Fenhorn · Fri 05 Jan 2018, 14:40

In MYZ you usually earn 3-5 XP per session and I think that you will get he same amount in FbL (edit: looking at the xp list, my guess is that you will get the same on the average).

If skills and talents both cost the same thing, there is a no-brainer to always take the skill. A lot of games gives you a benefit if you specialize. FbL does the same. Increase Melee by +1 and you become better with all melee weapons. Take the talent, Swordmanship (or whatever it will be called in English) for example and you get +1 but only with swords.

If all the talents would be talents that gives you new abilities then I think we could have the same cost, but now half (or something) of the talents are skill-specialty talents.

Edit: You don't always take a skill-specialty talent instead of increasing a skill. If you play a character that fights with a shield and a bastardsword, then increasing the skill would benefit both the shield and the bastardsword. If you instead would have taken the Swordmanship talent, then you would only improve your skill-use with swords, not with shields.

lupex · Fri 05 Jan 2018, 15:17

Thanks for expanding on what's in the Swedish version, unfortunately I am only working off the English chapters released so far.

Are there a lot of the +1 specialist talentsin FbL, I could only see the weapon specialist talent in MYZ?

If instead of decreasing the cost for talents to 3Xp, have these talents be +2 specialist talents. This would then give players an interesting choice when spending thier 5 XP, and take out any 'no-brainer' choice?

Eldhierta · Fri 05 Jan 2018, 16:32

Thanks for expanding on what's in the Swedish version, unfortunately I am only working off the English chapters released so far.

Are there a lot of the +1 specialist talentsin FbL, I could only see the weapon specialist talent in MYZ?

If instead of decreasing the cost for talents to 3Xp, have these talents be +2 specialist talents. This would then give players an interesting choice when spending thier 5 XP, and take out any 'no-brainer' choice?

Wouldn't that just amount to the same thing as 3 XP for a specialist +1? Or actually even more of a no-brainer since you'd get +2 specialized for 5XP instead of 10XP for general as opposed to +1 specialized for 3XP against +1 general for 5XP. Right?

Fenhorn · Fri 05 Jan 2018, 16:46

After a quick count:
Skill-specialty talents: 20 (Talents that simply gives +1, +2 or +3 on a skill when used with the specialty, like bonus on axes with Axe-fighter).
Ability talents: 23 (Talents that gives you an ability that you normally don't have. Some of these also sometimes gives bonus to a skill).
Class talents: 24 (3 per class. Can only be taken by a character of that class).
Kin talents: 7 (1 per kin. You start with it and that's it).
Most talents can be increased to level 3 (not kin talents).

If instead of decreasing the cost for talents to 3Xp, have these talents be +2 specialist talents. This would then give players an interesting choice when spending thier 5 XP, and take out any 'no-brainer' choice?

I think that is to many dice to be convenient for gameplay. Swordmanship level 3 for example would give you +6 dice.

lupex · Fri 05 Jan 2018, 17:39

Thanks for expanding on what's in the Swedish version, unfortunately I am only working off the English chapters released so far.

Are there a lot of the +1 specialist talentsin FbL, I could only see the weapon specialist talent in MYZ?

If instead of decreasing the cost for talents to 3Xp, have these talents be +2 specialist talents. This would then give players an interesting choice when spending thier 5 XP, and take out any 'no-brainer' choice?
Wouldn't that just amount to the same thing as 3 XP for a specialist +1? Or actually even more of a no-brainer since you'd get +2 specialized for 5XP instead of 10XP for general as opposed to +1 specialized for 3XP against +1 general for 5XP. Right?

But it would encourage players to buy specialisms over increasing thier main skills, to be honest I think the difference between 3xp for a +1 specialist vs 5xp for +1 skill means players will generally still buy the 5xp skill increase more often than not. A +2 specialism makes it a bit more inviting (I agree a +6 for level 3 might be a bit much but I can't say how often that would become an issue?)

An additional reason for keeping it at 5xp for talents is for accounting and compatability purposes, if I am going to be playing the other Fria Ligan settings and also FbL then I don't want to have to keep checking the different XP costs for the same type of upgrade, and neither will my players.

King_Kull · Fri 05 Jan 2018, 19:02

Thanks for expanding on what's in the Swedish version, unfortunately I am only working off the English chapters released so far.

Are there a lot of the +1 specialist talentsin FbL, I could only see the weapon specialist talent in MYZ?

If instead of decreasing the cost for talents to 3Xp, have these talents be +2 specialist talents. This would then give players an interesting choice when spending thier 5 XP, and take out any 'no-brainer' choice?
Wouldn't that just amount to the same thing as 3 XP for a specialist +1? Or actually even more of a no-brainer since you'd get +2 specialized for 5XP instead of 10XP for general as opposed to +1 specialized for 3XP against +1 general for 5XP. Right?
But it would encourage players to buy specialisms over increasing thier main skills, to be honest I think the difference between 3xp for a +1 specialist vs 5xp for +1 skill means players will generally still buy the 5xp skill increase more often than not. A +2 specialism makes it a bit more inviting (I agree a +6 for level 3 might be a bit much but I can't say how often that would become an issue?)

An additional reason for keeping it at 5xp for talents is for accounting and compatability purposes, if I am going to be playing the other Fria Ligan settings and also FbL then I don't want to have to keep checking the different XP costs for the same type of upgrade, and neither will my players.

Then change the rules as you see them fit in your style. Simple and easy.

lupex · Fri 05 Jan 2018, 19:10

Wouldn't that just amount to the same thing as 3 XP for a specialist +1? Or actually even more of a no-brainer since you'd get +2 specialized for 5XP instead of 10XP for general as opposed to +1 specialized for 3XP against +1 general for 5XP. Right?
But it would encourage players to buy specialisms over increasing thier main skills, to be honest I think the difference between 3xp for a +1 specialist vs 5xp for +1 skill means players will generally still buy the 5xp skill increase more often than not. A +2 specialism makes it a bit more inviting (I agree a +6 for level 3 might be a bit much but I can't say how often that would become an issue?)

An additional reason for keeping it at 5xp for talents is for accounting and compatability purposes, if I am going to be playing the other Fria Ligan settings and also FbL then I don't want to have to keep checking the different XP costs for the same type of upgrade, and neither will my players.
Then change the rules as you see them fit in your style. Simple and easy.

That is always an option but I thought that I would start by giving my feedback on the Alpha rules, prompt a discussion and see if things change in the rules. House-ruling is a last resort for me, I would rather try to have the RAW changed to match the style of play that I am looking for.

Forum

Spending XP

Spending XP

Re: Spending XP

Re: Spending XP

Re: Spending XP

Re: Spending XP

Re: Spending XP

Re: Spending XP

Re: Spending XP

Re: Spending XP

Re: Spending XP

Who is online