Fria Ligans forum

Hullo, folks,

I've got a question about defending in combat that I'd like to have addressed.

On page 83, in the chart for Free Actions, "Defending in an opposed roll" is said to be a free action.  However, on page 84, "Defending in close combat" is a Reaction, and requires the use of AP.  I would have thought that defending in close combat is an opposed action, or am I mistaken about this?

The only thing that occurs to me here is that the Free Action is more about dodging, rather than "actively defending", hence why it's Free.  Would that be correct?

Thanks, in advance.

Defending is an opposed action (specifically a Fast Reaction costing 1AP). Defending doesn't really distinguish in how you defend. Just that you cannot Defend (or dodge) a ranged attack, only a melee attack. The only defence against Ranged Attacks is finding cover (a Fast, non-reaction action).

I wonder if its inclusion on the table as a free action is a typo, or whether it doesn't mean defending against attacks. But a generic defending against a non-attack roll. Such as rolling Infiltration to oppose somone's Obersvation roll for when sneaking through darkness or smoke.

Some combat attacks, e.g breaking free of a grapple, require an opposed roll. In such circumstances, it's an action for the attacker (the person breaking free). Not the defender. 

Hullo, blaster219,

I understand how defending works in the system, and that one can't defend against Ranged attacks (other than finding cover).

While it's possible that it's a typo, there's a section of text in that early part of the chapter that actually states characters get defense rolls without it costing them actions.  Sorry, don't have the book to hand at the moment to find where that is.

Hullo, The1TrueFredrix,

The Grapple rules do exactly what you mention.  After a quick sample combat with a couple of characters that I created for the purpose, I find that I really like the Grapple rules in the game.  That still doesn't explain the discrepancy about the AP cost for defense actions.

The first mention of Defending in the combat chapter, other than that table, is page 87 where it states it costs 1AP. I can't find any other mention in the text before that, and nothing that says you can defend against a close combat attack for free.

Hi!

The wording here is a little unclear. Being the defender in a normal opposed roll (such as when being Manipulated or when someone Sneaks up to you) does not count as an action. However defending in melee combat is not a normal opposed roll - it's a special case and it does cost 1 AP. Hope that's clearer!

Hullo, The1TrueFredrix,

The Grapple rules do exactly what you mention.  After a quick sample combat with a couple of characters that I created for the purpose, I find that I really like the Grapple rules in the game.  That still doesn't explain the discrepancy about the AP cost for defense actions.

Yeah, I like the grapple rules too. I also like the defence action roll. A defence action, eg Parry or Counter attack, is not the same as "opposing" an attack roll. Some skills require an opposed roll, melee attack is not one of them. So if your opponent does not make an action in defence, you get an unopposed roll to hit. You might assume that a target will always try and defend himself, but that isn't the case. Sometimes a character will risk injuries to score a vital hit in a counter attack. 

The first mention of Defending in the combat chapter, other than that table, is page 87 where it states it costs 1AP. I can't find any other mention in the text before that, and nothing that says you can defend against a close combat attack for free.

To be honest, I can't remember where I saw this, or perhaps it may have been in an earlier version of the game.  That said, the problem has been resolved, as Tomas has answered the question, so it's all moot now.

Hullo, Tomas,

Much clearer, mate, and thanks for helping me to explain my confusion on the matter.   Perhaps a clarification or some such will be added to an Errata if one is ever done up.