Fria Ligans forum

Hello. I'm about to run the new starter set adventure and I have a question. Naurnaith, Araf´s Bane, is a Spear, yet none of the pre-generated characters are particularly skilled with spears. Is there some mechanical balance reason for this that I'm missing, or would it be better to change it to a Sword if playing with pre-generated characters?

Thanks!

Hello. I'm about to run the new starter set adventure and I have a question. Naurnaith, Araf´s Bane, is a Spear, yet none of the pre-generated characters are particularly skilled with spears. Is there some mechanical balance reason for this that I'm missing, or would it be better to change it to a Sword if playing with pre-generated characters?

Thanks!

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Hi Fehrald, I don't see a problem. They'll use the spear (if they want to use this weapon for combat), but they just don't have a specialization in that weapon (no extra success dice, only the feat die).

p.s. or you follow the melee weapon rules (brawling) and you give the best weapon specialization for the character. But in that case, you can give a penalty since they don't have a specialization (I would do that). It's up to you.

Arthur.

That Famous Weapon is there just to fill in the background for Garaf, the Hound of Angmar. The pre-generated characters were created & available before Over Hill and Under Hill was published.
When I ran it during Roll20Con, the players didn't find the Spear. When I included it in an existing game, there was a Ranger of the North who was glad to get a Famous Weapon for their Spear proficiency.
If you are continuing into a campaign, I'd suggest returning the Spear to the High Elves of Rivendell and being gifted a suitable Famous Weapon or Armour in return.

That Famous Weapon is there just to fill in the background for Garaf, the Hound of Angmar. The pre-generated characters were created & available before Over Hill and Under Hill was published.
When I ran it during Roll20Con, the players didn't find the Spear. When I included it in an existing game, there was a Ranger of the North who was glad to get a Famous Weapon for their Spear proficiency.
If you are continuing into a campaign, I'd suggest returning the Spear to the High Elves of Rivendell and being gifted a suitable Famous Weapon or Armour in return.

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That's an excellent suggestion, Andrew (returning the Spear to the High Elves of Rivendell). I should have thought of that myself. This is where you can see the experience of a Loremaster who has already put in some miles (hahahah!).

Thanks,
Arthur.

That Famous Weapon is there just to fill in the background for Garaf, the Hound of Angmar. The pre-generated characters were created & available before Over Hill and Under Hill was published.
When I ran it during Roll20Con, the players didn't find the Spear. When I included it in an existing game, there was a Ranger of the North who was glad to get a Famous Weapon for their Spear proficiency.
If you are continuing into a campaign, I'd suggest returning the Spear to the High Elves of Rivendell and being gifted a suitable Famous Weapon or Armour in return.

I know that the characters were created before the new starter set was published, but at the end of the day, they are the ones included and suggested in the module itself. That's why I find it strange that none of them have a decent proficiency with spears. Or that the module itself, as an introductory scenario, doesn't suggest that this weapon can be adapted and changed as you see.

Regardless, thank you so much for such good suggestions (I really liked the one about the high elves of Rivendel).

This is where you can see the experience of a Loremaster who has already put in some miles (hahahah!).

I started GMing in 1981 (D&D, Traveller, RuneQuest) so I've made all the mistakes, decades ago.

This is where you can see the experience of a Loremaster who has already put in some miles (hahahah!).

I started GMing in 1981 (D&D, Traveller, RuneQuest) so I've made all the mistakes, decades ago.

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Andrew, we're not that far apart in age (I think), and it's possible I'm older; I'm 59 (you don't need to tell me your age, it's private). I also played D&D and Call of Cthulhu in the '80s. You definitely have more experience than me as a Loremaster with TOR.

Thanks again for your suggestion.

Arthur.

I’d probably keep it as a spear — it can create a nice moment where a character grows into the weapon rather than being optimized from the start

I’d probably keep it as a spear — it can create a nice moment where a character grows into the weapon rather than being optimized from the start

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You're absolutely right, Quilavo.

Arthur.

p.s. or you follow the melee weapon rules (brawling) and you give the best weapon specialization for the character. But in that case, you can give a penalty since they don't have a specialization (I would do that). It's up to you.

Arthur.

This actually comes up quite often. I've always been of the opinion brawling weapons have their own category on the Weapon table on Page 100 and that you cannot use Weapons that have an assigned Combat Proficiency as Brawling Weapons (unless they're Mithril).

The rulebook on page 65 states "Rolls made using Combat Proficiencies are resolved as Skill rolls, rolling one Feat Die and a number of Success Dice equal to the rank possessed in the Combat Proficiency used. If you try to use a weapon you don’t possess a rating for (rank 0), you roll only a Feat Die" (emphasis mine).

I don't think the brawling rules allow a Player-Hero to simply bypass Combat Proficiencies by using melee weapons that fall under Combat Proficiency categories (Spears, Swords & Axes) as improvised brawling weapons (as highlighted in the brawling rules on Page 67)?

Doing so has quite significant implications througout the game (seizing attacks, mithril weapon enhancement, allocation of starting points for Combat Proficiencies, allocation of Adventure Points during the game, etc.).

Just as some examples of some potential complications using that rule with the Enchanted Spear in question:

- A Player-Hero with 3 in Swords and 1 in Spears? He throws a Spear with 1 Skill but in melee he uses 2 die as a brawling weapon or because he is trained he only uses his Spear skill of 1? If the latter, from a mechanical perspective the Spear would be better in the hands of someone with no training in Spears (but 3 in a different Combat Proficiency).
- A Player-Hero with 3 in Bows and 1 in Swords. He's trained in Swords but if he uses the Enchanted Spear in Melee he can roll 2 die as a brawling weapon?
- If seized, can that Player-Hero use the spear, with its enhancements, as a brawling weapon to make brawling attacks? If so, what is the purpose of having a dagger (or other brawling category weapon) or the Mithril enchantment (other than reducing weapon weight)?

I am not sure if how I do it is correct or if what you've suggested above is correct, but as there are clearly different interpretations for something that impacts a number of areas in the game it would be good to get this clarified (and once clarified if possible added to a future errata).