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Daydren
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Joined: Thu 11 Apr 2024, 04:30

Fighting a faction question.

Thu 11 Apr 2024, 04:41

This is the situation.
6 characters in the haven are going to have to fight the blackhearts from the core rulebook. (30 people strong.)

The haven was unable to recruit help from an allied faction due to failed manipulation rolls and even a mess up on a manipulation roll. (The allied faction had weapons and med gear but were scientists. So their first inclination was not to fight.)

So it's essentially 6 vs. 30. So i was thinking this is perfect for the brawl rules. Also, they may be able to separate some of the blackhearts or find heavy cover to keep themselves alive.

So my question is, using rules as written, is there anything other than brawl rules to apply?

Side question, how would you prepare as the game master to run this encounter as it seems the haven is doomed but is forced to fight? (I know pc's are likely to die at anybtime in this game, but want them to have at least a small chance. )

Thank you in advance for your help.
 
caelo
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Joined: Fri 12 Apr 2024, 06:48

Re: Fighting a faction question.

Fri 12 Apr 2024, 06:53

So I cannot offer any answers on the rules. However, in regards to potentially making the fight difficult but winnable:

- Hint at possibilities of separating the Black Hearts as you mentioned, but also potentially look at ways of fragmenting the group at it's core rather than just the fight. Make them fight EACH OTHER rather than the PCs

- Slip some things into the combat areas that can turn the tide. Maybe the Black Hearts have a fuel barrel in the right spot to break their defense and even draw in a horde when it's detonated. Maybe there's a truck stuck on a hill, and if you just... cut the brakes... It'll careen down the hill towards their base/defenses.

- Spread the fight out yourself, make some Black Hearts want to take the fight to them, while others want to try and shore up a defensive position. Maybe some fall back to protect their supplies, while others try to protect some weaker members. You don't have to have the entire gang rush out to fight the attackers

Be sure to take inspiration from the show as well! While many main characters die, they still always have some degree of an upper hand, even when outclassed/outnumbered.
 
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Daydren
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Re: Fighting a faction question.

Fri 12 Apr 2024, 15:52

Good ideas. My only concern is the blackhearts according to my interpretation of their background in the core rules. Is they are street gang style and enjoy outnumbering people.

However it does also say they are somewhat fragmented... perhaps multiple attacks on their haven..
 
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Ste M-H
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Re: Fighting a faction question.

Mon 15 Apr 2024, 13:31

Are the rivals attacking them? Do the PCs have to defend their haven? (sorry, wasn't clear from the question)
What is the objective of the badguys? Just to drive them off, intimidate them, or to actually wipe them out?


I'd say you need to emphasise to the players exactly how screwed they are. Rules as written, in a straight fight, they have absolutely zero chance of beating 5 to 1 odds.

However, assuming they have time to prep, and use it, and are clever, you could give the opportunity to stack the deck in their favour by cleverly preparing traps, and fortifying their haven, and using the results of their prep skill tests to thin the enemy number come fight time.

Also, if you don't want it to result in a TPK, make sure they've got the chance to run away, either before or during the fight.
 
Nilo
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Joined: Thu 14 Apr 2011, 11:55

Re: Fighting a faction question.

Tue 16 Apr 2024, 15:18

Don't forget that the Haven's Defense adds Bonus dice to all skill rolls when defending the Haven against an opponent (page 87). With that said, I think you need to level with the players that this is the kind of game where this behavior will lead to them all being killed. There is not a chance they will defeat 30 opponents, unless you cheat as GM. Which I don't think you should do. They will probably have to abandon their Haven, but what they do is of course in the end up to the players.
 
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Daydren
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Re: Fighting a faction question.

Wed 17 Apr 2024, 04:36

Are the rivals attacking them? Do the PCs have to defend their haven? (sorry, wasn't clear from the question)
What is the objective of the badguys? Just to drive them off, intimidate them, or to actually wipe them out?


I'd say you need to emphasise to the players exactly how screwed they are. Rules as written, in a straight fight, they have absolutely zero chance of beating 5 to 1 odds.

However, assuming they have time to prep, and use it, and are clever, you could give the opportunity to stack the deck in their favour by cleverly preparing traps, and fortifying their haven, and using the results of their prep skill tests to thin the enemy number come fight time.

Also, if you don't want it to result in a TPK, make sure they've got the chance to run away, either before or during the fight.
In this scenario the pc's have decided to strike first as the blackhearts have been searching for their haven and want to fight the blackhearts on their own terms.

Objective of the blackhearts is to take from anyone they come across so its super unlikely they would let it end peacefully.

Escape was discussed but there are two swarm size 6 walker hordes very close to their haven. (They have had some bad lucknon random generation rolls. ) They are worried they will die fighting a large swarm and want to go out fighting the blackhearts as they have a better chance. Then they will deal with the giant hordes.)
 
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Daydren
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Joined: Thu 11 Apr 2024, 04:30

Re: Fighting a faction question.

Wed 17 Apr 2024, 04:39

Don't forget that the Haven's Defense adds Bonus dice to all skill rolls when defending the Haven against an opponent (page 87). With that said, I think you need to level with the players that this is the kind of game where this behavior will lead to them all being killed. There is not a chance they will defeat 30 opponents, unless you cheat as GM. Which I don't think you should do. They will probably have to abandon their Haven, but what they do is of course in the end up to the players.
Agreed and i don't fudge rolls either so they know it will be tough. They know they are likely to die. Just trying to find a way to give them a sliver of hope.

They have been known to be incredibly lucky on rolls in combat so far so maybe that will continue. :)
 
Nilo
Posts: 165
Joined: Thu 14 Apr 2011, 11:55

Re: Fighting a faction question.

Wed 17 Apr 2024, 10:49

Are the rivals attacking them? Do the PCs have to defend their haven? (sorry, wasn't clear from the question)
What is the objective of the badguys? Just to drive them off, intimidate them, or to actually wipe them out?


I'd say you need to emphasise to the players exactly how screwed they are. Rules as written, in a straight fight, they have absolutely zero chance of beating 5 to 1 odds.

However, assuming they have time to prep, and use it, and are clever, you could give the opportunity to stack the deck in their favour by cleverly preparing traps, and fortifying their haven, and using the results of their prep skill tests to thin the enemy number come fight time.

Also, if you don't want it to result in a TPK, make sure they've got the chance to run away, either before or during the fight.
In this scenario the pc's have decided to strike first as the blackhearts have been searching for their haven and want to fight the blackhearts on their own terms.

Objective of the blackhearts is to take from anyone they come across so its super unlikely they would let it end peacefully.

Escape was discussed but there are two swarm size 6 walker hordes very close to their haven. (They have had some bad lucknon random generation rolls. ) They are worried they will die fighting a large swarm and want to go out fighting the blackhearts as they have a better chance. Then they will deal with the giant hordes.)
Sounds amazing!! :)
 
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Daydren
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Re: Fighting a faction question.

Wed 17 Apr 2024, 15:32

Thank you. It will be an amazing last stand regardless. I think their only hope is to either herd the walkers towards the blackhearts, (any ideas on mechanics for that would be appreciated. I think mostly mobility rolls if they lead it with their car) or maybe do multiple surprise attacks on the blackhearts to lower their numbers... separate them, etc.
 
Nilo
Posts: 165
Joined: Thu 14 Apr 2011, 11:55

Re: Fighting a faction question.

Wed 17 Apr 2024, 20:54

If they prepare in advance to have the swarm kill the Blackhearts, I would set it up as a Project, discussing with the players what they would likely need to make it work, and then give them time to have their Characters put stuff in place, and then maybe demand 2 or 3 skill rolls to spring the trap, which should of course not be rolled in advance, but in the middle of the action. And if it works, it will work. Think of the episode where they herd thousands of walkers out from the mine so they won't enter the Haven (but are attacked by the Wolves). Projects are on page 89-90, and it should be treated as a "Dangerous Project"... Or the traps the Wolves set up with trucks filled with walkers.

Getting stuff needed for the project/ trap will be little scenarios in themselves. A Survival roll to locate the thing (page 93) and off they go... :)

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