Riversnake
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Re: Feedback Thread for Coriolis: The Great Dark Quickstart

Thu 07 Nov 2024, 16:23

An alternative to the events of the delve would be to have interesting followup sequences to some of them: like the explorers are stuck on a wall with mechanical rope or climbing equipment, when they hear a noise from a small tunnel. Do they climb back up the shorter route or hurry down the slower route? Or fight hanging from the wall where they might risk falling?
However, this type of event might actually play out better with a room by room experience instead. The players need to descend. How do they go about it? A monster likely overhears it.
 
Riversnake
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Joined: Fri 01 Nov 2024, 22:11

Re: Feedback Thread for Coriolis: The Great Dark Quickstart

Fri 08 Nov 2024, 02:52

Here is another suggestion. When the supply hits a low number, like 10 left or lower, each time they lose supplies a supply disaster happens. Roll D66 and have six categories with a result on each. This means that when supplies starts to run out, really bad things can happen, effects like those mentioned above and others. Breathing equipment problems, leaving all exhausted. Lights go out partly and they have disadvantage on anything that needs sight. Destroyed gear from a random player. If they lose 4 supply in one go, perhaps a disaster always happens also. This would be good so that problems can occur earlier as well for variation. Obviously, these things shouldn’t happen too often, and a d66 result may indicate a player must roll a climb or athletics roll as well, or they might take damage and a piece of gear is destroyed randomly.

I also recommend the d66 supply disaster results imply potential storyline developments. Like one result could be a fall or falling debris (choose) and a -2 check on athletics or similar avoids damage but not armour damage. But a column should contain possible “developments” for each result. Short suggestions for the DM, like “stalled”, “stuck in a narrow pit or under a boulder” or “enemy approaching” or. “Blight released” or “equipment found” written like this: Stalled. Stuck in narrow pit or under debris. Enemy hears sound. Blight released. In a text under a headline explaining developments, gm:s are encouraged to pick none, one or combine several events, or improvise others to keep players guessing. These developments could ideally provide hard choices and roleplaying moments. Perhaps my suggestions above could be used, when players try to repair one thing by using up supplies for another. Like fixing breathing but using stuff from particular armours. Simple rules could indicate what could be used etc. The important part is that there is a choice and that crises can happen.

That would be simple rules to add more drama and specificity, and some results could give the players difficult choices, like batteries are low, do we sacrifice lights or scanner function? Scanners might help with the mapping out terrain even going back. Or problems with their protective suits or weapon damages during mistakes with climb rolls. Of course, it needs to be combined with events that happen on their way out of a delve. Blocked passages they came from, new monsters creeping in, mechanisms trapping them, robots activated etc Since they won’t always run super low, this could be something that add pressure to the delve. The players dropping from 14 to 11 supplies know the next bad role will likely cost them something.

I love these ideas :-)
 
Riversnake
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Joined: Fri 01 Nov 2024, 22:11

Re: Feedback Thread for Coriolis: The Great Dark Quickstart

Fri 08 Nov 2024, 12:38

I also think in a delve, going back the same path up, despite often going upwards should give a bonus of 1 progression on a success. This to avoid the slog when the ruin has been explored but also to show how the explorers have left some equipment behind to help them back and now know the territory better. Observe, this is not something that is possible to house rule as a calculation of supply and blight damages must be taken in accord in order to make the delve exciting.
 
Riversnake
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Joined: Fri 01 Nov 2024, 22:11

Re: Feedback Thread for Coriolis: The Great Dark Quickstart

Sat 09 Nov 2024, 01:30

I’d also think it useful if a ruin has more description of what delving into it feels, what you could see, and makes each site specific. This so GMs can make the events going down come alive so we are not feeling we play a board game. You have that in the quickstart which is good, so I hope a lot of variation will come in.

Are there mechanical contraptions and ramps and ladders, or are there cavelike passages that narrow and requires drilling, or is it stone masonry or even dripping mud and water. Does this delve involve a lot of fissures that has to be passed over or jumped? Are the floors of fragile materials like rotting wood and easily broken? A general description of the feel and possible improvised problems of each ruin is a recommended addition to this.

I also hope there are plenty of roleplaying opportunities in the delve.

And that mysticism and intrigue figure a lot in Ship City and its consequences and choices made spill over on the delve scenarios. Maybe fewer equipment could be acquired because of a decision.

By the way, it was a missed opportunity in the QuickStart that when equipment was sabotaged, there were no real consequences except that they couldn’t call in help. It didn’t feel like the sabotage had specific consequences innthe delve. There were equipment damages described, but we got no feeling for what it meant. It is this lack of specificity that is a current problem, and is an opportunity to develop that I paointed to with my suggestions above. I hope this is developed further in the real game, so destroyed equipment generates more specific problems. But I bet it does.

I’d just add that you suggest that I noticed you mentioned gm:s should expand on the events on the delve, but I think that is not enough. You need a bit of suggestions.

Again, some of the events are a bit too mechanical. Why would the sticky flora just happen to the guard? Why would red lamps just happen to the scout? It doesn’t seem that he is scouting ahead? What does the scout do? Does he have scanners mainly because the delver seems to be leading the way?
 
Riversnake
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Re: Feedback Thread for Coriolis: The Great Dark Quickstart

Sun 10 Nov 2024, 01:15

I’d just like to add that the reason why just adding the text in the quickstart by the delve event table that a gm is free to expand and roleplay on the events is not enough because supplies and health loss are calculated by the game designers. An expansion of the events to avoid a board game feeling must therefore be fully supported by the game designers, with suggested potential losses in some cases. More of these events also need a setup problem, potential attempts at solutions and resolutions with consequences. Giving a choice of a solution to a problem even in a table - at times - elevates engagement.
 
Riversnake
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Re: Feedback Thread for Coriolis: The Great Dark Quickstart

Sun 10 Nov 2024, 01:30

I’d also expand on the supply disaster idea. It could be that with 30 supplies of less losing 4 supplues at once requires a d66 roll. With 20 supplies left 3 supplies means a roll. 10 supplies left 2 supplies forces a roll. Maybe some d66 results are relatively harmless in themselves but could set up worse problems.
 
Riversnake
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Re: Feedback Thread for Coriolis: The Great Dark Quickstart

Sun 10 Nov 2024, 20:55

Apart from this I hope the game uses its moody setting portrayed in art, with its kind of spiritual setup against dark implied horror. I know you said it is not a horror game, but sticking it in in parts of the campaign makes sense, that a couple of the missions touch on horror would be great way to mix it up. Creatures that cause mental damage to an extent that set off mental injuries. It’s already in, why not use it?
 
Riversnake
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Re: Feedback Thread for Coriolis: The Great Dark Quickstart

Sun 10 Nov 2024, 23:17

First of all, a lot of cool stuff, but I will go through the problems as I see them:

Page 66. What does the shards actually look like and what is their significance to humans? How long are they? What colour? Is the metallic completely unknown and why? In the full game: Do they come in different colours or in different metals? How do more expensive ones differ from cheaper ones? Do they have mystical functions (hopefully eventually)?

Page 67. What is she drawing with that is making that noise??? You need to use one supply on her? Is it food? Oxygen? Both? A hole in her suit that needs to be fixed because blight has damaged it? Specifics please. It matters to make it a roleplaying game! Do you need a roll sometimes as well as supplies, as well as time, to fix something, making it a risk? That would be really cool. Hard choices we love. To save someone when saving isn’t even guaranteed… Especially if there are more than one potential solution.

Page 65 plus page 68. 12th era. What era is it now? That is something players would ask. How does that translate in years? … in 185? Is that a year or a number relating to a space map? How does it relate to the 12th era. If I as a GM has to give out this kind of information, I need to know these things because players will ask. Cave of Sirra? What happened there. Again, if I am explaining this to players I must expect questions from this reveal. If this is described somewhere else and I have missed it, please reference that page number to make it easy for me.

I don’t understand the blight levels in the map on 65 either, handout 6. The text seems to imply there is blight, but I assume the blight is zero. It should have been made clear in the text if that is the case for us newbies so we are auper clear on how maps function, and if not, the map in 6 should have made it clear there are blight levels in a similar fashion as in handout 5. However, this is confusing when I compare handout five and handout six. I will assume it is zero as reading through the rooms the cathedral has a blight trap and the blight levels are clearly indicated in 5. However, the text threw me off for a moment. The less time I need to spend interpreting these things the better. The Runequest rules were a nightmare to everyone for these types of reasons, vague references, forced to go back and forth in pages, vague rules and this type of figuring out gets in the way of thinking about the good stuff: immersion and tension and drama. You are not them in any case by any stretch if the imagination, but you should not sniff on their level on unclarity either.

P.68. Why is the vision a handout? I think it would be more dramatic is the GM describes this. I get that one player suffers from it, but it is hardly a secret or secrets, like a disaster if other players find out. So it should not be a handout. It should be vividly dramatised by a GM. The moment will be bigger and more mysterious that way!

Further, the writing is not entirely logical here. It says: “Search: If the Explorers search the chamber they lose 1 point of Supply and discover: The Vines:”
The vines event should happen anyway if they pass the room right? So why is it under search?
Where are the shards? Under the vines? In a corner? Will picking up the shards leave them with a greater risk of being trapped by the vines? Some opportunities missed and it feels more like an old school dungeon monetary reward than something that could be mystical, descriptive and have a decision attached to it.

Eastern passage. Again, that they “search” is really vague. I think may if they look to the ceiling they have a chance to see the blight crawlers in the dark and in time, or if they look about as they enter cautiously by using a skill. That they search is too general and inherently undramatic.

A frost-encased disc. Cool. How large is it? How weighty? Give us some notion of it so we can describe it. Is it metal. What metal? Can they scan it later I need to know? Is this some sort of builder metal? Can it be scanned for what molecular construction it has or not? This need not be included in the scenario but certainly needs to be understood by a GM in the main game. Where does it lie? I suppose on the floor or leaning on a wall? Does the explorers instinctually know this could be an artefact? How? Does a skill need to be used? Are there patterns engraved in it that leaves a clue or does the explorers know that anything encased in frost could be a builder artefact? All these things are unclear and I have to improvise them and hope (if this was a longer campaign) that my improv doesn’t run counter to a narrative later that you have.

Page 69. In the campaign it would be nice if you offered several possible courses of actions to make contact with a person like this. Someone might try to talk to her, another might try to shake her, using a strength roll, perhaps. The former might need two successes while the latter needs one. Or the latter might get only an empathy roll with
Do they use equipment to notice someone is alive through a suit? Can you hear people talking through a suit here in atmospshered space? Or do they use comms? What if they were in space? In the real game these details about delving, suits and atmospheres would matter a lot for immersion. It is cool stuff. Use it. Could a comm unit be broken by a critical hit or by losing supplies like I suggested, rending one explorer mute? All cool visual stuff that no other roleplaying game has... a chance for you to help immerse us. We want details around how different suits and comm systems work here. Can you connect easily to a stranger’s comm? Or if speaking is enough, do they use microphones to enhance the sound in atmosphere?
2d6 glimmering shards. A perception roll reveals that there are more of them? How? What do they see initially on a search and where did they find the original shards? Did they need to search in a particular place to find the first stash? Specifics please. Don’t force a gm to make up every detail. It feels a bit too much like old school casual treasure this shard system as used here. Money is boring, though I am sure the full game can make use of the concept better if you manage to put despair into hard purchase choices.

Page 70. As a note I would say it is always good to note again how many the black toad infiltrators were so I don’t have to reference back to somewhere else. Also, it would have been cool if one of them seems to have been affected by blight or accidents. Immersion in the setting.

As I mentioned earlier I think making your way back should add a bonus die or even an extra marker for of travel for a success. And right, how long is a marker? It matters. 10 meters? A hundred? If it says somewhere that would be great. Especially if the map said so. Also, it would be great if some “markers” were difficult terrain, where travelling turns out to take twice as long, with potential blight affecting them twice or other threats, such as supply losses.

When it comes to critical hits and equipment/supply damage, may I suggest that any hit above the crit threshold would force a roll on equipment/supply disaster d66 table, or possibly that 1 over crit threshold gives 1 supply damage and 2 over gives 2 supply damage etc, and if enough supply damage happens from a single source or event, you roll on supply disaster or equipment disaster, either way a table that has effects that breaks equipment. So 2 supply loss from a single source would generate a roll. Or easier: a hit 2 above a crit threshold, would force a roll on the supply table when called for, like during a delve, with most results being ignored if you are wearing regular clothes and no weapons, or even such a roll ignored. On the table in this latter case could be results like a general small supply loss and specifics described earlier. The key is that this table should also be consulted during delve disasters, such as losing a lot of supplies in accidents or by being stuck.

Again, for me using a crit damage system is all about immersion and using your setting and focus to the max, to create realism and tension for the players that translates to roleplayable moments and forcing surprising adjustments, hard repair choices (or not doing a repair with supplies) and the terror of specific things breaking down through attrition.

As a side note it seems the delver makes many more rolls than the others during a delve, which is a bit unfortunate. The other players again, are forced to wait for small attrition damages, or a possible event that their specific role needs to solve. As I mentioned above, this also leaves me a bit hesitant about if you have chosen the best way to approach the delving. It feels like even if you go this way, or with something similar, the other players need more to do. In a more room by room situation, with a scout with scanning equipment and the different roles with other interesting equipment or very useful specialties, this could be played out better. Just reducing the amount of rolls in a delve would help, reducing supplies, and make more frequent “room” full encounters which need to be roleplayed out, with options, seems to me to be the most reasonable solution besides other suggestions mentioned.

Also in general, crit thresholds should probably be there even when stones fall from a ceiling, like with basically anything that can damage you. It would make it more interesting.
 
Riversnake
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri 01 Nov 2024, 22:11

Re: Feedback Thread for Coriolis: The Great Dark Quickstart

Mon 11 Nov 2024, 22:35

One character has the survivor talent but I don’t know what that is. I mean, you have to survive in all combat but that would mean it is too powerful. I guess maybe you could grant it in some special circumstances. I hope they are all explained in the full rules. And that more abilities come with talents than just adding dice.

I didn’t get the motivation of the Black Toad crew when they said they would not kill the heroes if they handed them the artefacts. Would they leave them down there? Would they remove their climbing gear before going and tell the base to call for help? Can’t they be identified in Ship City? Or does technology work differently and there are a ton of people living there? It left me with many questions in how to roleplay the situation.
 
Riversnake
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri 01 Nov 2024, 22:11

Re: Feedback Thread for Coriolis: The Great Dark Quickstart

Tue 12 Nov 2024, 17:27

Critical hits on swarm enemies should perhaps do something? It makes sense you don’t roll on the crit table.

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