User avatar
Michele
Posts: 105
Joined: Tue 29 Jun 2021, 16:58

Re: The One Ring Core Rules – Official Errata

Wed 06 Mar 2024, 21:11

”P 95: Surprised enemies no longer cannot take actions in the first Close Quarters Round. Instead, they now lose (1d) on all combat rolls in the first Close Quarters Round.”
What is the reason behind the change? Was the original rule unbalanced? Please explain why this rule was changed.
Nothing official been said so far as I'm aware, but it used to be every unbalanced. On a successful ambush, you'd have, per player:
  • An unopposed volley.
  • Depending on the judgement of the LM, potentially a second unopposed volley.
  • A full round unopposed.
  • A Second full round.
  • Finally, the adversaries can actually respond.
Most combats shouldn't really last much more than three rounds, and you're getting at least halfway if not the whole combat in without there being an answering attack - three or four attacks on them. Thanks to the way the dice system works, later on in the game, it's fairly reliable to get the checks necessary to set up an ambush...it's unbalanced.

An ambush is still pretty powerful - unopposed volleys, and losing 1d is likely to make the opponents miss very often, but at least they have a shot (or alternatively, they'll spend Hate to get the 1d back, which is also a win for the players).

That's precisely the intent. Also note that the opponents lose (1d) on all combat rolls, which include Protection rolls. Yes, a Piercing Blow against an opponent caught off guard is now much more dangerous!

so does a player in melee have to remain engaged with an enemy or can he change engagement freely whenever he wants? (going against other enemies in melee or exchanging it with an ally for example)

No, they can't change engagement freely - at least, not in a single round. However, they can do so by "rotating" Rearward stance: a Player-hero goes to Rearward, disengaging from any opponent; close combat engagement is determined as normal, with any Player-hero remaining engaged with whichever opponent they were engaged with in the previous round, and possibly engaging the newly unengaged opponent (the one that was engaged with the Player-hero that went to Rearward); at the very start of the next round, a new Player-hero may go to Rearward, and the previous Player-hero may come back to close quarters and engage the same or different adversaries.

Seems a bit convoluted, but the general rule is actually very simple: the only way to change engagements (apart from killing the opponent or making them retreat) is using the Rearward stance (if possible).

Hope that helps!
It is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till.
 
Antalon
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue 29 Jun 2021, 18:14

Re: The One Ring Core Rules – Official Errata

Thu 07 Mar 2024, 00:23

I have a further question arising from the errata: does the limit to spending Hate or Resolve, now limited to a number of spends in one round equal to Might, only apply to the activation of Fell Abilities? Meaning that Hate or Resolve may also be used, in addition, to add a dice bonus to rolls in combat?

Thanks.
 
Antalon
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue 29 Jun 2021, 18:14

Re: The One Ring Core Rules – Official Errata

Thu 07 Mar 2024, 10:32

A further point, the additional bullet on page 143 is: “ Each combat round, an adversary can spend a maximum of Hate/Resolve equal to their Might.”.

Please can the forward slash be replaced with “or”, to make it consistent with all other reference to Hate or Resolve? A small point but a / feels inconsistent with Tolkien related prose.
 
User avatar
Michele
Posts: 105
Joined: Tue 29 Jun 2021, 16:58

Re: The One Ring Core Rules – Official Errata

Thu 07 Mar 2024, 10:59

I have a further question arising from the errata: does the limit to spending Hate or Resolve, now limited to a number of spends in one round equal to Might, only apply to the activation of Fell Abilities? Meaning that Hate or Resolve may also be used, in addition, to add a dice bonus to rolls in combat?

Thanks.

No. The rule simply refers to any voluntary spending of Hate/Resolve, although alas, the terminology has not always been used consistently. For the same reason, any forced losses of Hate/Resolve (such as Craven, Fear of Fire and Hate Sunlight), are not to be counted in the limit.
It is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till.
 
Antalon
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue 29 Jun 2021, 18:14

Re: The One Ring Core Rules – Official Errata

Thu 07 Mar 2024, 12:51

Cheers. Helpful clarification.
 
coz_b
Posts: 39
Joined: Sat 19 Feb 2022, 03:17

Re: The One Ring Core Rules – Official Errata

Thu 07 Mar 2024, 13:54

Updated post below with correct formulation of question :roll:
Last edited by coz_b on Fri 08 Mar 2024, 17:08, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
Harlath
Posts: 524
Joined: Sun 19 Jul 2020, 10:40

Re: The One Ring Core Rules – Official Errata

Fri 08 Mar 2024, 00:05

On this topic, it was discussed on the Discord server that this new change to Hate expenditure affects Undead in particular. Their Deathless Fell Ability should maybe be changed to a loss of Hate, or to an auto-activation a la Hideous Toughness, as otherwise an Undead cannot spend any Hate on their turn without potentially dying in the following round to a failed protection roll or attack that reduces it to zero endurance. Since all Undead are Might 1, their staying power has been considerably reduced unless they focus their Hate expenditure purely on Deathless, as now you can neutralise a Barrow-wight without the need for a Bane weapon if the creature has spent their single Hate point to do anything other than activate Deathless.

This idea could be taken further to Fell Abilities such as Snake-like Speed and Tough Hide, perhaps changing it to a loss of Hate rather than an expenditure.

I was an advocate of changes to Hate, and a limit is great, but I feel like it has gone a little too far in certain cases, and Might 1 adversaries (particularly Undead) shouldn’t have to decide between activating an offensive or defensive Fell Ability in my opinion, just as a Troll doesn’t need to with its Hideous Toughness.
This is incorrect. The hate spending limit is per combat round and adversaries go after PCs. An adversary who spends hate in its turn is not at increased risk next turn. Think about it the other way round - if the PCs do enough damage to trigger deathless they are safe from that foe spending hate on deadly spells/boosting its attacks. I’ve only used the change in one fight so far, but I liked it. It also felt felt exciting for players when a big endurance hit and piercing blow took an undead down faster than previously possible, due to the welcome cap on hate spending.
 
coz_b
Posts: 39
Joined: Sat 19 Feb 2022, 03:17

Re: The One Ring Core Rules – Official Errata

Fri 08 Mar 2024, 11:00

On this topic, it was discussed on the Discord server that this new change to Hate expenditure affects Undead in particular. Their Deathless Fell Ability should maybe be changed to a loss of Hate, or to an auto-activation a la Hideous Toughness, as otherwise an Undead cannot spend any Hate on their turn without potentially dying in the following round to a failed protection roll or attack that reduces it to zero endurance. Since all Undead are Might 1, their staying power has been considerably reduced unless they focus their Hate expenditure purely on Deathless, as now you can neutralise a Barrow-wight without the need for a Bane weapon if the creature has spent their single Hate point to do anything other than activate Deathless.

This idea could be taken further to Fell Abilities such as Snake-like Speed and Tough Hide, perhaps changing it to a loss of Hate rather than an expenditure.

I was an advocate of changes to Hate, and a limit is great, but I feel like it has gone a little too far in certain cases, and Might 1 adversaries (particularly Undead) shouldn’t have to decide between activating an offensive or defensive Fell Ability in my opinion, just as a Troll doesn’t need to with its Hideous Toughness.
This is incorrect. The hate spending limit is per combat round and adversaries go after PCs. An adversary who spends hate in its turn is not at increased risk next turn. Think about it the other way round - if the PCs do enough damage to trigger deathless they are safe from that foe spending hate on deadly spells/boosting its attacks. I’ve only used the change in one fight so far, but I liked it. It also felt felt exciting for players when a big endurance hit and piercing blow took an undead down faster than previously possible, due to the welcome cap on hate spending.
You’re correct and my formulation was wrong. Wow. I’ll try again.

What I should have said is that a Barrow-wight, for example, is forced to use Deathless when the trigger occurs (otherwise they die), which then means it cannot spend any Hate on its own turn, nor can they trigger Deathless multiple times in a round during the PH’s turn. Moving it to a loss of Hate makes it so that Undead are still losing Hate per auto-activation of Deathless, but can also properly show their power and use their range of abilities on their own turn (or Deathless can trigger multiple times during the PH’s turns).

This prevents a typical party of 4 from nuking a Barrow-wight in one round. For example:

Player 1 triggers a Piercing Blow which the Barrow-wight fails. The Barrow-wight spends a point of Hate to negate the Wound via Deathless. That is all its Hate spent this round already on the first turn. Player 2 triggers a Piercing Blow and the Barrow-wight fails. The Barrow-wight is now dead.

In my opinion, this situation shouldn’t be able to occur and the chance that it can is an oversight. Remember that if Player 2 hits (or even misses), there’s still two players left to attack this turn. Undead don’t feel so scary anymore.

This also negates the need for a weapon with Bane of the Undead. In the situations above, if you are in Rearward with a bow that has Bane of the Undead, it’s going to feel a bit “meh” that actually your Bane didn’t matter at all because now the Barrow-wight has been completely disarmed of its ability to defend itself properly.

Hence why I, and others, believe Deathless should be an auto-loss of Hate and activate automatically so that Undead still have the staying power of before.
 
User avatar
Michele
Posts: 105
Joined: Tue 29 Jun 2021, 16:58

Re: The One Ring Core Rules – Official Errata

Fri 08 Mar 2024, 16:05

On this topic, it was discussed on the Discord server that this new change to Hate expenditure affects Undead in particular. Their Deathless Fell Ability should maybe be changed to a loss of Hate, or to an auto-activation a la Hideous Toughness, as otherwise an Undead cannot spend any Hate on their turn without potentially dying in the following round to a failed protection roll or attack that reduces it to zero endurance. Since all Undead are Might 1, their staying power has been considerably reduced unless they focus their Hate expenditure purely on Deathless, as now you can neutralise a Barrow-wight without the need for a Bane weapon if the creature has spent their single Hate point to do anything other than activate Deathless.

This idea could be taken further to Fell Abilities such as Snake-like Speed and Tough Hide, perhaps changing it to a loss of Hate rather than an expenditure.

I was an advocate of changes to Hate, and a limit is great, but I feel like it has gone a little too far in certain cases, and Might 1 adversaries (particularly Undead) shouldn’t have to decide between activating an offensive or defensive Fell Ability in my opinion, just as a Troll doesn’t need to with its Hideous Toughness.
This is incorrect. The hate spending limit is per combat round and adversaries go after PCs. An adversary who spends hate in its turn is not at increased risk next turn. Think about it the other way round - if the PCs do enough damage to trigger deathless they are safe from that foe spending hate on deadly spells/boosting its attacks. I’ve only used the change in one fight so far, but I liked it. It also felt felt exciting for players when a big endurance hit and piercing blow took an undead down faster than previously possible, due to the welcome cap on hate spending.
You’re correct and my formulation was wrong. Wow. I’ll try again.

What I should have said is that a Barrow-wight, for example, is forced to use Deathless when the trigger occurs (otherwise they die), which then means it cannot spend any Hate on its own turn, nor can they trigger Deathless multiple times in a round during the PH’s turn. Moving it to a loss of Hate makes it so that Undead are still losing Hate per auto-activation of Deathless, but can also properly show their power and use their range of abilities on their own turn (or Deathless can trigger multiple times during the PH’s turns).

This prevents a typical party of 4 from nuking a Barrow-wight in one round. For example:

Player 1 triggers a Piercing Blow which the Barrow-wight fails. The Barrow-wight spends a point of Hate to negate the Wound via Deathless. That is all its Hate spent this round already on the first turn. Player 2 triggers a Piercing Blow and the Barrow-wight fails. The Barrow-wight is now dead.

In my opinion, this situation shouldn’t be able to occur and the chance that it can is an oversight. Remember that if Player 2 hits (or even misses), there’s still two players left to attack this turn. Undead don’t feel so scary anymore.

This also negates the need for a weapon with Bane of the Undead. In the situations above, if you are in Rearward with a bow that has Bane of the Undead, it’s going to feel a bit “meh” that actually your Bane didn’t matter at all because now the Barrow-wight has been completely disarmed of its ability to defend itself properly.

Hence why I, and others, believe Deathless should be an auto-loss of Hate and activate automatically so that Undead still have the staying power of before.

This seems more of a balancing problem with the opponent itself than with the rule.

A single Barrow-wight is not meant to pose a serious threat to a group of 4 Player-heroes, unless they are very inexperienced characters, or the Wight managed to catch them by surprise with its Dreadful Spells.

For more experienced or larger groups, the use of more Barrow-wights, or adding minions to the encounter, should be considered. Alternatively, you can simply create a Barrow-wight with Might 2 for a more challenging encounter.
It is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till.
 
coz_b
Posts: 39
Joined: Sat 19 Feb 2022, 03:17

Re: The One Ring Core Rules – Official Errata

Fri 08 Mar 2024, 17:06


This seems more of a balancing problem with the opponent itself than with the rule.

A single Barrow-wight is not meant to pose a serious threat to a group of 4 Player-heroes, unless they are very inexperienced characters, or the Wight managed to catch them by surprise with its Dreadful Spells.

For more experienced or larger groups, the use of more Barrow-wights, or adding minions to the encounter, should be considered. Alternatively, you can simply create a Barrow-wight with Might 2 for a more challenging encounter.
Making Barrow-wights Might 2 is a good idea — would love to see an official errata there ;) Would certainly help restore the terror they are supposed to convey.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest