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My party ran into some questions regarding torches as a weapon last night. Reviewing RAW, it seems there is some discrepancy here.

Other Hazards (p. 52)
A torch can be used as a weapon, and counts as a small wooden club that deals fire damage. Whenever you hit someone with it, you must immediately roll to see whether the flame goes out.

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Melee Weapons (p. 74)
Wooden Club, Small
1H, 7 Str., Range 2, Damage 1D8

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Improvised Weapons (p. 120; IW cards)
Torch
The attack hits automatically and inflicts 2D6 fire damage + damage bonus.

We had questions--

• How much damage does a torch produce then? 1D8? 2D6? 1D8 + 2D6? (damage bonus implied all around and roll to see if it's extinguished)

• Is there a difference between a torch I bought from a vendor and carried into a dungeon vs. one simply grabbed off the wall as Improvised Weapon?

• If I'd roll to hit with a club should I roll to hit with a torch? Club rules suggest I do, IW rules suggest I don't.

Players can always use a torch in combat as per the rulebook, but if you draw the improvised version of the torch, then they can use that torch that has an improved effect compared to normal torch attacks. Improvised weapons are one use only.

Players can always use a torch in combat as per the rulebook, but if you draw the improvised version of the torch, then they can use that torch that has an improved effect compared to normal torch attacks. Improvised weapons are one use only.

It sounds like what you're saying is that my second premise is true. There is a fundamental difference between a torch I've been carrying through the dark and a torch that just happened to be nearby when a fight broke out. I really like the ideas the Dragonbane folks put into improvised weapons, but I kinda wish the game devs didn't bifurcate the concept of torches in such a strange way that could easily create arguments at the table.

Players can always use a torch in combat as per the rulebook, but if you draw the improvised version of the torch, then they can use that torch that has an improved effect compared to normal torch attacks. Improvised weapons are one use only.

It sounds like what you're saying is that my second premise is true. There is a fundamental difference between a torch I've been carrying through the dark and a torch that just happened to be nearby when a fight broke out. I really like the ideas the Dragonbane folks put into improvised weapons, but I kinda wish the game devs didn't bifurcate the concept of torches in such a strange way that could easily create arguments at the table.

Here’s how I’d justify it - using the improvised torch catches the target by surprise allowing a more damaging blow the first time it’s used. Once done however, it’s just a regular torch.

Players can always use a torch in combat as per the rulebook, but if you draw the improvised version of the torch, then they can use that torch that has an improved effect compared to normal torch attacks. Improvised weapons are one use only.

Hi. There is something I'd rather to understand better. As exposed in this thread, there is a difference between a torch bought from a shop and a torch found in a dungeon: while the first one should be compared to a "Wooden Club, Small", the second one follows the rules written on its (Improvised Weapon) card. What I don't understand is the following part: while on page 55 I can read "Once used, an improvised weapon is consumed and the card is removed.", on the card I can read "You may then keep the torch.". So, combining these two points, my conclusion is: a "Torch - Improvised Weapon" is not consumed after being used and a player can continue to use it as an improvised weapon and GM has to check if it is still lit, due to the fact regular rules are circumvented by the ones on the cards. Do I have this right? Thank you.

The torch improvised weapon card is discarded after use, but you still have a torch, a torch that behaves like a normal torch, not like an improvised weapon torch.

The torch improvised weapon card is discarded after use, but you still have a torch, a torch that behaves like a normal torch, not like an improvised weapon torch.

Thank you so much!

The torch improvised weapon card is discarded after use, but you still have a torch, a torch that behaves like a normal torch, not like an improvised weapon torch.

Thanks for your replies.
But that is still uncomplete.

How a normal torch behaves ?

How much damage for a normal torch ?
1d8 which are considered fire damage ?
1d8 + fire damage but in that case how much fire damage ?

Is the attack with a normal torch automatic without an attack roll like an improvised torch or not ?