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Riddermound & Secret of the Dragon Emperor Balance
Posted: Tue 28 Nov 2023, 13:03
by arranf
My party attempted to navigate Riddermound for a second time last night and only narrowly escaped a TPK to some leniency on my part.
The party of 3 struggled with the rope and the magic user only narrowly escaped going down before they'd even made it inside.
The ghost in room 8 really damaged them, so much so that they needed to stretch rest in the room (I decided to not bring the ghost back during the stretch rest)
The wight was a nearly impossible fight for them given how injured they were and one player ultimately died, and another went down. I ruled fire damage was twice as effective in order for them to make it out in one piece.
I'm aware of the "Mirth and Mayhem" style of play but is it possible that the adventure is balanced around larger parties?
A party of 4 would have twice as many attacks per round (assuming a monster of 2 ferocity and the PCs evade/parry when possible) making these encounters significantly easier.
Anything I've missed here?
Re: Riddermound & Secret of the Dragon Emperor Balance
Posted: Tue 28 Nov 2023, 14:22
by Short Fey
I will agree the game is probably balanced towards 3-4 players (im running for 5, and despite my efforts to buff the combat encounters they are mincemeating most things).
But do wanna ask:
How often do they have to roll for things?
The game advocates to only roll when the players are trying something risky/challenging. Sense they are using an item (the rope) i let them climb down without rolling for anything.
Did they provoke the ghost into attacking or did they just start swinging at her as soon as she appeared?
I usually like to make the ghost sympathetic, and allow the players to earn her trust (such as bluffing that they are part of the empire, fetch the silver bands from the childrens coffins etc), and they can gain her treasures without resulting to voilence.
Plus there are two magical torches the players can use in a pinch.
The Wright is indeed a nasty foe, but i use him as a "lesson" that sometimes (especially how vunerable you can be) fleeing is better than to stay and fight to the death. I will have him move around to scare them, but i only bring him out when they have looted the crypt. If the players realize they can't do much against it, i'll point out they have the treasure and could just leave. It can lead to a tense scene of the players trying to escape.
Re: Riddermound & Secret of the Dragon Emperor Balance
Posted: Tue 28 Nov 2023, 15:05
by arranf
I will agree the game is probably balanced towards 3-4 players (im running for 5, and despite my efforts to buff the combat encounters they are mincemeating most things).
But do wanna ask:
How often do they have to roll for things?
The game advocates to only roll when the players are trying something risky/challenging. Sense they are using an item (the rope) i let them climb down without rolling for anything.
Did they provoke the ghost into attacking or did they just start swinging at her as soon as she appeared?
I usually like to make the ghost sympathetic, and allow the players to earn her trust (such as bluffing that they are part of the empire, fetch the silver bands from the childrens coffins etc), and they can gain her treasures without resulting to voilence.
Plus there are two magical torches the players can use in a pinch.
The Wright is indeed a nasty foe, but i use him as a "lesson" that sometimes (especially how vunerable you can be) fleeing is better than to stay and fight to the death. I will have him move around to scare them, but i only bring him out when they have looted the crypt. If the players realize they can't do much against it, i'll point out they have the treasure and could just leave. It can lead to a tense scene of the players trying to escape.
Good questions and points!
I think the bulk of this can be put down to me running the adventure mostly as written.
The acrobatics check to descend is written into the adventure hence why I called for it (with a boon using the rope).
I ran the ghost as friendly, but unintelligible without the languages check (as per the adventure!), and even then you can only make out key phrases about the dragon empire and Eledain. She then became hostile, when they took the warhammer. In the adventure it says she respawns and then becomes hostile if they enter the oak door, I didn't have her respawn after a stretch - but after a whole shift. And then she remained peaceful when they entered the door!
The Wight sounds better as you ran it - again I had him there as written (they'd previously drawn his attention and defeated him on a previous day!) standing over the sarcophagus. This led to the inevitable!
Re: Riddermound & Secret of the Dragon Emperor Balance
Posted: Tue 28 Nov 2023, 16:22
by Short Fey
Fair answers.
I think the main issue is running as written with only two players. It means they may lack skills that someone else can cover for, and while most combat encounters are covered (most refers to the players numbers +/- a few), when it asks using a monster statblock straight from the rules they thend to have a ferocity of 2, tipping it to the monsters fabor.
I'd say for the future, when running for 2 players, consider reducing the ferocity to 1 on most monsters. It will retain the monsters threat but also give players the numbers advantage. (The rules even suggests this if you wanna make fights easier).
Re: Riddermound & Secret of the Dragon Emperor Balance
Posted: Tue 28 Nov 2023, 16:56
by arranf
Fair answers.
I think the main issue is running as written with only two players. It means they may lack skills that someone else can cover for, and while most combat encounters are covered (most refers to the players numbers +/- a few), when it asks using a monster statblock straight from the rules they thend to have a ferocity of 2, tipping it to the monsters fabor.
I'd say for the future, when running for 2 players, consider reducing the ferocity to 1 on most monsters. It will retain the monsters threat but also give players the numbers advantage. (The rules even suggests this if you wanna make fights easier).
Sorry - I realised my OG post wasn't clear. They're struggling with a party of 3 (pregen nallard Knight, human mage, and the Wolfkin). That feels like it should be about right?
Re: Riddermound & Secret of the Dragon Emperor Balance
Posted: Tue 28 Nov 2023, 17:58
by Gimkin
[...]
I'd say for the future, when running for 2 players, consider reducing the ferocity to 1 on most monsters. It will retain the monsters threat but also give players the numbers advantage. (The rules even suggests this if you wanna make fights easier).
I think that reducing the the ferocity is one way of scaling, but I think I would go with the solo creation rules. 2 Heroic Abilities upon creation instead of one and the Option for "Army of One".
Re: Riddermound & Secret of the Dragon Emperor Balance
Posted: Sun 17 Dec 2023, 19:21
by CEBedford
The next time I run this I’m thinking about adding more paths to the map. It’s hard to have a harrowing cat and mouse chase through tunnels that are just a single circle. More paths open up opportunities for drawing the wight away from his tomb.
I want to add one extra chamber at least, as a nest for the giant spider that hunts the tunnels, maybe even with a secret exit just in case the players need another path to flee with the treasures once they have them, as long as they can overcome the swarm of hungry babies that call the web home.
Really just looking for ways to open up more options for the players. The current map isn’t built to give the players many alternate paths or non-combat solutions.
Re: Riddermound & Secret of the Dragon Emperor Balance
Posted: Thu 30 May 2024, 12:07
by Mike65
We haven't played this one yet but I imagine there will be a lot of resting.
Re: Riddermound & Secret of the Dragon Emperor Balance
Posted: Sat 01 Jun 2024, 11:01
by Raven Nash
I've run the adventure for a group of 4, and though I think it's maybe the worst written adventure besides Robber Knight, I don't really understand, why people find it so hard. My group waltzed through the tomb, defeated the ghost in 1 round and the wight in 2. They even killed a manticore on their way in 1 round...
Besides lucky rolls, the key to the location were two things: 1. Torches and 2. Pillar.
We were using the pre-gen chars.
The descent saw them struggling, but with the Help-action, they all got down the rope safely. The bats were killed quickly. A little exploring, not alarming the goblins, and they found themselves in the chamber with the lady. There they promplty angered her, but instead of wasting time with conventional weapons, they hit her with their torches and Fireball.
Then the wight appeared, and the scene repeated itself - with one difference: the mage cast Pillar under the wight, smashing it at the ceiling, where they left it to burn.
They used Pillar to open the rusty portcullis, btw.
I can just assume, that most players simply rush into melee, to get killed.