Redcoat
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Magical Success and Blessing Dice

Mon 20 Nov 2023, 04:58

I thought I understood how magical success worked but I read the rules again now that my players are starting to acquire items with a blessing and I realized I'm confused.

As I understand it, a marvelous item allows a player to "choose" to achieve a magical success on a skill affected by an item so that they count as having rolled a 20 and the action automatically succeeds. A 4th level character can do that once for each long rest.
So if a player chooses to automatically succeed, why do they need to worry about using the blessing die?
What if the DC of the action is greater than 20, do they still succeed, or do they need their skill bonus and the blessing die to try to achieve the needed number?
Is the blessing die always usable or are uses limited to half their proficiency rounded down?

Edit - I think I get it. You can always use the blessing die on the appropriate skill, and you can choose a magical success a limited number of times. Is that right?

Thanks!
 
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JLandan
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Re: Magical Success and Blessing Dice

Mon 20 Nov 2023, 06:44

You are correct. What's more, even though a magical success almost always succeeds, often how much more than the DC required is of importance. For example: if you succeed by 5 or more or by 10 or more, you get an even better result.
 
Redcoat
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Re: Magical Success and Blessing Dice

Mon 20 Nov 2023, 06:47

Ok so if I assign a DC of 25 then a player might still need the blessing die to succeed, depending on their skill.
 
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JLandan
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Re: Magical Success and Blessing Dice

Mon 20 Nov 2023, 22:46

No, it would still succeed. But some checks have levels of success.
For example: On a Journey, the Guide makes a pathfinding check. If the pathfinding check succeeds, the event takes place at a distance of 3 hexes. If the check succeeds by 5 or more, the event occurs 4 hexes away. So if the Guide has a Marvelous Item that grants a boon to Travel checks, he could use the item with a magical success and automatically succeed the DC 15. But he must still roll his d20 and add his Travel bonus, and the +1d4 (or d6 or d8, depending on PB) for the Blessing of the Item, to determine if he succeeds by 5 or more in order to determine if the Fellowship moves 3 or 4 hexes. He may roll below DC15, but it is still not a failure, because he used a magical success, and he didn't succeed by 5 or more so they move 3 hexes instead of the 2 (for failure) or 4 (for result of 20+). Or even the catastrophic failure (by 10 or less) move of 1 hex.
 
Redcoat
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Re: Magical Success and Blessing Dice

Mon 20 Nov 2023, 23:14

ok thanks that really helps!
 
Lormin
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Re: Magical Success and Blessing Dice

Tue 21 Nov 2023, 04:31

No, it would still succeed. But some checks have levels of success.
For example: On a Journey, the Guide makes a pathfinding check. If the pathfinding check succeeds, the event takes place at a distance of 3 hexes. If the check succeeds by 5 or more, the event occurs 4 hexes away. So if the Guide has a Marvelous Item that grants a boon to Travel checks, he could use the item with a magical success and automatically succeed the DC 15. But he must still roll his d20 and add his Travel bonus, and the +1d4 (or d6 or d8, depending on PB) for the Blessing of the Item, to determine if he succeeds by 5 or more in order to determine if the Fellowship moves 3 or 4 hexes. He may roll below DC15, but it is still not a failure, because he used a magical success, and he didn't succeed by 5 or more so they move 3 hexes instead of the 2 (for failure) or 4 (for result of 20+). Or even the catastrophic failure (by 10 or less) move of 1 hex.
For that specific roll/reason, I have homeruled that magical successes can't be used on travel checks by a guide made to advance during a journey.
 
Redcoat
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Re: Magical Success and Blessing Dice

Tue 21 Nov 2023, 17:52

I see your point, because if the players are generally starting out from a sanctuary they would be rested and able to magical success the journey. There would never be any problems and very little excitement along the way.
 
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JLandan
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Re: Magical Success and Blessing Dice

Wed 22 Nov 2023, 21:15

The Fellowship could only use a magical success on the first day, or possibly the second day too, if they have a Wonderous Artefact rather than a Marvelous Item. The uses per long rest do not recharge during a Journey because of the rule indicating that there is only the benefit of short rests on Journeys.
 
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Re: Magical Success and Blessing Dice

Sun 26 Nov 2023, 20:29

I've been doing word searches in the pdf to get all of the examples for this and I am putting them down here for the benefit of myself and others, because it is not easy to keep all of this straight.
- Magical success can be granted by a cultural trait, virtue or artifact.
- It seems the player can simply choose to obtain a magical success if they have the capability for any action that requires a skill roll, but not for something like combat.
- if there are possible degrees of success you would still role the die and apply a Blessing or a Lore die if possible.
- The number of times you use it depends on what is giving you the capability.
- Scholars can gain a magical success using a word of command and a Lore die together.
- All elves can obtain a magical success if they are not miserable.
- I don't see any restrictions about being miserable for other cases. I would rule that they can't if they are miserable but that is open to interpretation I think.
- Dwarves and Rangers can gain the capability from certain cultural virtues, usable in very specific ways.
- Other heroic cultures need items with a Blessing that can grant magical success to specific skill rolls. I don't see anything that would help with smithing in that case.

To use Hand-craft to make magic items:

- All elves with the correct tools proficiencies can do it.
- Dwarves with the the correct tool proficiency and the broken spells virtue can do it.
- I would say scholars with the correct tool proficiency could use a lore die and a word command to do it - but that is possibly open to interpretation.
In addition the crafted item is permanently taking up one of your craft slots, so there is a limit to how many items you can craft.

Thoughts?
Last edited by Redcoat on Tue 28 Nov 2023, 04:19, edited 1 time in total.
 
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JLandan
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Re: Magical Success and Blessing Dice

Mon 27 Nov 2023, 23:35

I've been doing word searches in the pdf to get all of the examples for this and I am putting them down here for the benefit of myself and others, because it is not easy to keep all of this straight.
- Magical success can be granted by a cultural trait, virtue or artifact.
- It seems the player can simply choose to obtain a magical success if they have the capability for any action that requires a skill roll, but not for something like combat.
- if their are possible degrees of success you would still role the die and apply a Blessing or a Lore die if possible.
- The number of times you use it depends on what is giving you the capability.
- Scholars can gain a magical success using a word of command and a Lore die together.
- All elves can obtain a magical success if they are not miserable.
- I don't see any restrictions about being miserable for other cases. I would rule that they can't if they are miserable but that is open to interpretation I think.
- Dwarves and Rangers can gain the capability from certain cultural virtues, usable in very specific ways.
- Other heroic cultures need items with a Blessing that can grant magical success to specific skill rolls. I don't see anything that would help with smithing in that case.

To use Hand-craft to make magic items:

- All elves with the correct tools proficiencies can do it.
- Dwarves with the the correct tool proficiency and the broken spells virtue can do it.
- I would say scholars with the correct tool proficiency could use a lore die and a word command to do it - but that is possibly open to interpretation.
In addition the crafted item is permanently taking up one of your craft slots, so there is a limit to how many items you can craft.

Thoughts?
I totally concur with your assessment. One thing I would add though; there is no reason a tool set cannot be a Marvelous Artefact and have a Blessing die and provide a magical success. Because a tool set only applies to its own proficiency, I would not allow a Wonderous Item tool set usable with two proficiencies.

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