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Does anyone else feel a bit baffled by the ubiquity of mutants in space at the start of the Ad Astra campaign?

Just scrolling through the pdf and looking at the art, you get the sense that their are way more mutants than humans in space; and more mutated animals than either humans or mutants. And that kind of bears out if you look at stat blocs. There are 8 named humans, 6 named mutants, and 9 named mutated animals, but also only 6 generic human stat blocks and 10 generic mutant stat blocs for the general populations. (I'm inclined to assume that the generic stat blocs that call for random mutations are a intended to be a mix of mutants and mutated animals).

I have frequently wondered what space was going to be like when Ad Astra finally came out, and I was not expecting that. I am having a lot of trouble reconciling it with the previous world building.

Wasn't a cornerstone of the original Path to Eden campaign that the Alpha Mutants were something new? And that they were flowering in secret, despite Dr. Retzius viewing them as a failed experiment that she wanted to euthanize was the big plot twist at the end of the campaign? Project Eden, the Ark and the People are not special or important if space filled up with mutants in the meantime.

There is a sidebar in Ad Astra that says:

Dr. Retzius’ experiments to create new
types of humans that could withstand the
poisoned Earth began in orbit. She brought
some of her experiments down to Earth, but
others remained on Jotunheim. From there,
mutated humans and animals have spread
throughout the inner solar system. Robots
can also be encountered everywhere.

But does that really reconcile this setting with all the worldbuilding that came before? In Path to Eden it says, "The field of genetic engineering had evolved rapidly and was being used to adapt humanity to a life in space. Could not the same technology be used to adapt humanity to the ravaged environment on the Earth’s surface? Project Eden was brought back to life, on a small
scale and hidden from the rulers of the enclave, who had given up all hope of the Earth every harboring human life again." So if they made any test tube mutants on Jotunheim before heading down to Command Center Delta, they presumably made few enough to keep it under wraps. The whole point of setting up shop on Earth was to hide Project Eden from Mimir, wasn't it?

And where did all these mutated animals come from? That was an Elysium project that didn't even get loose until around the same time frame as the Path to Eden campaign. How did they make it into orbit?

Seriously, if anyone can offer up some rationales to square these round pegs, I would appreciate it. It would save a lot of mental energy if I can just use the book as a reference without rewriting the whole setting in my own notes to make it usable.

The thought here is that the technology to create mutants started in orbit in Jotunheim and predates Project Eden. What Dr Retzius did was to take this mutant technology and try to use it to adapt humans to the surface. This is what she tries to hide from Mimir, not the creation of mutants, but the creation of mutants that can survive on the surface.

The same goes for the mutated animals of Genlab Alpha. The DNA modifications to create humanoid animals predates the paradise valley and is also sourced from Jotunheim.

So there is the general technology of mutants, which is sourced from Jotunheim and then the more specific technology of mutants that can survive the surface, which is Project Eden.

I agree that this, while maybe not strictly retconning, is not super clear in previous world building, but that is how we chose to move the plot forward. It takes away some of the uniqueness of the people of the ark, but to be fair that was already somewhat the case as there are multiple arks, potentially even more than makes sense from just Project Eden. Perhaps other enclaves also had access to the mutant technology and made attempts at it. After all, the mutant technology in some sense dates back to the red plague.

Okay, but why was did Project Eden have to be done in secret if there was no taboo against xenogenetics? Or why didn't they just take a bunch of adult mutants down to Command Center Delta to see how they did on Earth before spending decades growing baby mutants?

What I am inferring from, "but that is how we chose to move the plot forward," is that keeping the game tone and mechanics consistent with what players would expect was more important than keeping a completely tight narrative between all five campaign.

If that is what you are saying, I disagree. That choice means I am going to have do some work to customize this product when I hopefully have a chance to use it someday. The desperate, mysterious, and unique circumstances of Project Eden and Genlab Alpha were important to the whole tone of the setting for me.

But if the choice was made to play a little loose with the story for the sake of giving people a setting that you think would provide better gameplay, that is something that reasonable minds can have differing opinions about. I would actually be kind of relieved that it was at least a conscious choice. It would somehow be more frustrating if the creators didn't understand why this seemed really incongruent to me.

While I disagree about it not being a coherent story, I agree that it changes the tone and I think you are right that the feeling of the setting was prioritized over a strictly coherent narrative.

But, just to argue the case, I actually do think the narrative holds up as well even though it’s not quite as satisfactory. There was an absolute conflict around xenogenetics at Jotunheim, that conflict carries through in the story in Ad Astra with Refaim and the Odenites detesting the unpure mutants.

So Project Eden, that is using the xenogenetic experiments that were already controversial at Jotunheim to try to breed mutants on Earth *was* a controversial project. Both in terms of the desired end state where many (including Refaim) found it disgusting to mutate humans in that way and in terms of using the dwindling resources for what was thought to be pointless project. And the mutants that were already bread in orbit were not thought to be able to survive the surface.

Note also that the real secret isn’t that the Dr Retzius’s mutants can survive on the surface but that everyone can, including the zone ghosts, the people of Elysium and possibly everyone on Jotunheim. The assumption that no one can survive on the surface is at least no longer correct and possibly never was.

What I mean with the tone changing is that even if this makes sense narratively (if we were to agree on that), it is a shift in tone from the “you are special and the story of this setting is *your* background story”. In Ad Astra, Project Eden becomes neither unique nor actually that important for humanity’s survival. It is more the result of the power dynamics of Jotunheim rather than the singular genius of Dr Retzius. Xenogenetics already existed and Dr Retzius theory that it could be used to breed special mutants that could adapt to the surface was actually wrong, since it turns out that it wasn’t needed. The surface is (no longer at least) that poisonous.

We can agree or disagree on whether this makes narrative sense . But in the end you are right about the priorities. Another story could have been told that was more a direct continuation of Project Eden where xenogenetics and mutants were only used on Earth and the PCs are unique, pushing further on the principle that the story of the setting is *your* background story. Instead we prioritized telling a story that lets the PCs and players experience the full world of Mutant, in space.

Saying the narrative was no longer "coherent" would be much stronger criticism than I intended. (Although I might have been thinking it before you walked me through the reasoning above). But let's drill down into it a bit. If only for the sake of sharing some ideas with other GM's that click on this thread, because I have come up with a few while we have been going back and forth.

I think the thing that makes "The People" of Project Eden significant to the metaplot of the Mutant: Year Zaro campaigns is that they can thrive on Earth, while the zone ghouls are all sickly, malnourished children and teenagers that can't survive in direct sunlight without the protection of the ozone layer and won't live to adulthood. And, more importantly, that the integration of the mutants and zone ghouls means more robust future generations. I have always assumed that the other Arks also originated from Project Eden because Player handout #5: The Photograph shows us at least four other lead scientists that supposedly took other Alpha Mutants to separate locations to start their own Arks. So, that is the real importance of Project Eden within the setting, even though the PC's aren't supposed to figure that out until late in the campaign (if at all).

And I don't think that that premise necessarily has to be lost with the direction we ended up going.

I think the spin I am going to put on Mimir space mutants is that the controversial Xenogenetics program was much more conservative than anything Dr. Retzius was trying to do. They were just trying to engineer workers that were better adapted to space. There only have a few different kind of mutations, like Vacuum Hardened or Extreme Reflexes, and the physical characteristics of those mutations are minor and uniform because the first generation of them were turned out on an assembly line. The space mutants and humans in space aren't going to personally have an easier time on earth than the zone ghouls, but the new development is that inhabitants of Jotunheim aren't doomed to be the last generation, just waiting to turn the lights out. There is hope for future generations. (Although that distinction might not even be clear to the denizens of Jotunheim when the PC's arrive unless the PC's themselves have figured it out and explain it to Sastria).

Dr. Retzius's mutants would be seen as abominations by Mimir, but some of her experiments from before her team moved to Command Center Delta are still around. At the time, they had to keep hidden or be put down as rogue experiments. The collapse of Mimir is a mixed blessing for these proto-Eden mutants. The staff that was taking care of them disappeared long ago, so most of them became the Underfolk. But it was also an opportunity to try to escape Jotunheim all together, and many ended up with the Shipwrights on Jupiter or found their way to the Rust Fleet.

Only named NPC mutated animals will be encountered in space. Elysium had some orbital presence before the Enclave War. They brought up some mutated animals as a counter to zero-g mutant soldiers that Mimir were creating with their xenogenetics program. They brought up a variety because the Genlab program that was trying to engineer mutated animals that could suceed on the ravaged Earth, and their space program was just poaching them and throwing spaghetti at the wall to see if any of them had advantages in space. They were still trying to figure out which mutated animals were well suited for zero-g when the Enclave War started. Those mutated animals that are still around in space have become freelancers. Maybe there are some forgotten Elysium bases in the asteroid belt with with mutated animal tribes.

That is a backstory that meets my needs and doesn't require big changes to the contemporary setting you have put forth in the book, or rewriting of any of the named characters, (except maybe the Culvert King). The only big tweak is making all the unnamed mutant population (outside of the Underfolk, Shipwrights, and Verika's Pirates) more homogenous instead giving them random mutations.

That sounds like a good way to go with your campaign. Note though that most of the imagery and further descriptions includes mutated humans and animals, so if you limit the mutations to only a few you still have the problem that you won't really be able to use some of the book (in particular the images, the rest is easy to re-skin).

I actually find the interesting part to be that the mutants of Project Eden aren't that unique in surviving on the surface according to the story. The way I've read the zone ghouls is that they are more sickly in theory than in practice and that there are pockets of survivors through out the zones that are not related to Project Eden but are still thriving. In my mind, the reputation of the zone ghouls as sickly while in some cases true is as much a result of the stories from The Elder as it is actual fact.

Also, when Elysium I is destroyed and its inhabitants reach the surface, they are not immediately poisoned. There as well it turns out that the surface being uninhabitable might once have been true, but isn't any more. This, to me, is the big reveal of the campaign that carries through in Ad Astra.

But, this might not be how you've played your campaign and if you've leaned more heavily into the story elements of the PCs and the Ark being unique, then seeing lots of mutants in space becomes a bit of a disconnect. What I would do then is to say that Dr Retzius made experiments in orbit first and was then driven down to Earth, that way the mutants in space can be of the same origin as the mutants of Project Eden and you will have an easier time using the material in the book. But that is obviously your choice

In any case, I hope you enjoy the campaign!

Absolutely. There is a lot to love there. The places to visit and the broad conflict that is playing out in the background paint a vivid setting and seems like it will be very playable.

The pictures aren't a big deal; because they are mostly depicting situations, so you can assume that the characters are supposed to represent the PC's that came up in the rocket from Command Center Delta. Unless you mean the illustrations of NPC's, but in that case I think I have given myself enough room for all of the named NPC's to retain the mutant characteristics they are given in the book. Maybe the reason they have become important personages in the first place is because they have these abilities that are unique in space.

I'm not actually anywhere near using it yet. Our Ark campaign got put on hold for Elysium, and then Bladerunner, and now we are doing Alien. And I alternate with another GM doing an AD&D Greyhawk campaign. But we'll come back to the Path to Eden campaign someday. And now we can seamlessly transition if any of them get on the rocketship.

hey tarynt J bought ad astra but havent read it yet - but reading your objections J felt exactly the same and my immediate solution was also almost the same
J wanted to just get rid of all the animalmutants in space but then J liked
your idea that elysium just sended up some animaltestobjects to see which one was best suited for zero G and then the few that survived got stuck
but we were thinking very alike with the mutants
J also wanted to make them have other mutations and that the spacemutants were more like clones and not so powerful mutations but more static stats
and mutations suited for space or certain terraformed planets / moons if such exist?
maybe withstand radiation but not inflicting radiation like the mutants in the zone
etcera..

ops got to go..

fuck, J just wrote a longish remark but it disappeared when J was going to post it
just wanna say that J'm still looking forward to read ad astra
and J'm sure the story is very cool
but J have the same objections as tarynt so still very disappointed
becouse J dont think it follow the plotline and not so logical with powerful mutants running free in vulnerable spacestations
my first idea was to change it quite similair to how essrog is planning to
but J dont know, it for sure is a whole lot easier to just go with the flow
"gilla läget" as people say in sweden, just accept it the way it is..
J havent decided yet but J know it requires a whole lot of job to change something like this
easiest in that case would maybe just to state that the mutants that are named in the adventures are unique
runaways individuals from one or other unnamed unsanctioned genetic experiment?
maybe even collected samples from the zone? abductions of the third degree =)

SOME NEW SPACEMUTATIONS?!
withstand vacuum / hold breath / dormancy
immune: viruses /bacteria or specify
build in biological fire estinguisher
hands instead of feet
tail with a grip
enhanced reactions
perfect sense of direction
withstand higher gravitiation / enhanced strength
withstand cold
low use of oxygene
breath co2 like a plant (+produce oxygene?)
enhanced zero g ability
any mutant power that dont start fires or penetrates the hull might be okay, maybe make them less potent?
withstand radiation
low grade of magnetism?
ability to press yourself thruu tiny openings?
produce a bio-parfume that makes people less angry?
enhanced 3D menthal ability?
withstand fires
purify water?
endure the dark?
endure crowded places?
ability to eat ice instead of water?
send and read radio waves?
need less sleep?
ir/UV/x-ray vision?

just a few mutations that might suit spacemutants?!
all spacemutants could have the same set or a few different sets of mutations
but it probably would be cooler in game if they have 36 powers to choose from so you throw 3 D6 to see which one or ones..
if someone wanna have a spacemutant as a character one might let him also have a mechatronic limb to compensate for less potent mutant powers?

just some thoughts..

[quote="Tarynt Essrog" post_id=86759 time=1696534440 user_id=7149]
Does anyone else feel a bit baffled by the ubiquity of mutants in space at the start of the Ad Astra campaign?
[/quote]

I am pretty recent to the entire MYZ storyline - I original bought them to add stuff to the ALIEN RPG.

I just finished my first read through Ad Astra and will say - no - I didn't have any particular issue with the lack or abundance of mutants, animal uplifts, and robots in it.

I think it works quite well and specifically suits *everything* that has come before (English only - I have not read translated versions of the Swedish only books).

The environment of space is completely seperate from the situation on Earth after the Red Plague and Enclave Wars.

The spacefarers which came back to Earth were always written as secretive, haughty, aloof which could limit what is "common knowledge" in the Zones.

The PCs Ark is a bit special because of the Elder ... other Arks, etc don't have that same history.

The Red Plague cut off the Earth, and the Enclave Wars took the war into space and degraded that as well.

Meanwhile different factions above and below the clouds all kept up their scheming and moves to survive.

That could easily lead to attempts to adapt humans and animals to improve survivability in space (complicated by ongoing space radiation inflicted mutations and damage altering things uncontrollably).

Everything falls apart and wears out - including the knowledge of the past.

So the PCs and and books are offering glimpses and snapshots of a few possible threads among all the possibles across the planet and now in space.

What else don't we know about the pre-Plague years? the Plague itself? the Enclave Wars?

As more is uncovered - it necessarily changes how you view what came before.

In a meta-game sense, I am glad to see all of the previous campaigns and supplements woven together and capped off with Ad Astra as a coherent whole formed from coherent parts that stand alone ...

And, I think the resulting story arc is a greater than the sum of its parts.

Each of the previous campaigns is one tributary feeding into a growing river the further you go.

I think now we can finally see "the first full glimpse" of the MYZ setting .. before was just small pieces of a broken mirror each reflecting one aspect: Mutants OR Uplifts OR Robots OR Pure Strain Humans (to borrow the Gamma World term)... and with Ad Astra we see how all of those fit together as a result of the entire history before the Plague, the Plague itself, and reactions to the Plague forming the Titans, the Enclave Wars, and now ... what else was truly lost.

Looking at it from what the PCs would learn on the journey from the first all-alone Ark, to the choice at the end of Ad Astra - I think it works pretty well from zero to hero or hero long enough to become the villain.

If there is nothing else ever released for MYZ - then at least I feel we now have a complete story with a beginning, some middles, and (IMO) a satisfying end.

Without Ad Astra - everything building before still felt incomplete.

And yeah - I am definitely going to homebrew rules to run an octomare as a character.

Hope there was something usable for you in all that ramble above.