Vcutter
Posts: 133
Joined: Sat 23 May 2020, 09:55

Re: HK PSG-1, G11 and bullpops in general

Thu 01 Jun 2023, 08:47

I would be interesting to see what the "tactical gurus" would have adopted for G11. Fling the old mag out by swinging the barrel to the side, take out spare mag and stuff it in while trying to maintain barrel towards the threat? :D
TBH reloading tecniques do not matter that much when we are talking infantry warfare in the big picture. The ability to carry 150 rounds on the gun itself is a huge bonus so maybe the speed of reloading wasn't designer's top priority. The long magazines are probably not too easy to handle, no matter what "magpul" course you could have attended back then.

G11 has always been looked at from the point of view of the technical aspects, especially the caseless ammo and "hyper burst". It would indeed be interesting to see how the weapon handling aspect of it would have evolved if the gun had been adapted.
But I'd still go with -1 to reload! :)
 
HaplessOperator
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu 01 Jun 2023, 18:20

Re: HK PSG-1, G11 and bullpops in general

Thu 01 Jun 2023, 18:33

That's a horribly bumbling bit of weapons handling. I'm curious what the manual arms would have been if adopted.
It's even worse than that. They didn't show him trying to *release* the magazine before removing it. To reload the G11 at a somewhat relatively reasonable speed, you have to either use both hands with the weapon hanging taut from a sling, or take even longer than you commonly see depicted. There's a little button right behind the rear of the optic mount that serves as a magazine release.

It'd be worse running this thing than it is running a more conventional bullpup layout. Bullpups are slower, period, due to several facets of their design and where humans' arms are positioned, but this thing would be a goddamn nightmare trying to reload in a hurry, which isn't always important in the grand strategic scheme of things, but can have real consequences to the life of a soldier fighting close-in. Individual capability and proficiency of an infantrymen and ergonomically designed service rifles aren't the end-all, be-all of warfare, but it sure as hell makes it a lot easier for you to stay alive if you're fighting close in and you can run your manual of arms quickly and smoothly, and you can only train away so much of a process before you're bounded by the physical design of something.
 
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Ursus Maior
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Re: HK PSG-1, G11 and bullpops in general

Fri 02 Jun 2023, 11:07

Yup. But it sure doesn't look too handy.
https://youtu.be/E_didDgUjn0?t=50
I mean compared to the roughly 1-2 seconds one can change M4 magazine I doubt G11 could compare simply due to mag size and how deep it needs to be inserted. Then again haven't seen many in the competitions that I have attended so hard to say for sure! :D
Edit: Of course G11 was done before the whole "tactical" thing took off and people actually started to optimize things like reloading techniques. But simply looking at the G11 magazines and spares on top of the barrel it is hard to think of a a fast "tactical" reload that could be done because the mag is inserted so deep into the gun.
Then again, in a TW game where round is 5-15 secs I guess anything goes anyway...
Don't forget, the G11 was still a rifle for a conscription army with service times of up to one year only. Ergonomics were important, but so was sturdiness. In a 4E round of about 10 s, it should be doable to reload the G11.
liber & infractus
 
baldrick0712
Posts: 669
Joined: Fri 28 May 2021, 12:29

Re: HK PSG-1, G11 and bullpops in general

Fri 02 Jun 2023, 18:11

In the KS printing, a ROF 1 weapon must roll one ammo die per attack. Thus, The PSG-1 uses 1d6 rounds of ammo per attack and can score up to 2 hits.
I don't remember seeing anything about having to roll an ammo die, KS printing or otherwise. The current rule says you can add zero up to ROF ammo dice, or the number of rounds left in the magazine minus 1, whichever is lower.
 
welsh
Posts: 200
Joined: Sun 29 Nov 2020, 15:53

Re: HK PSG-1, G11 and bullpops in general

Fri 02 Jun 2023, 21:33

I don't remember seeing anything about having to roll an ammo die, KS printing or otherwise. The current rule says you can add zero up to ROF ammo dice, or the number of rounds left in the magazine minus 1, whichever is lower.
It was there. We had a lengthy discussion about it on this forum, i.e. whether someone should be allowed to fire a single shot, or made to roll an ammo die. The original rule was changed.

I'm still salty about that. :)

(Not really.)

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