leandro1010
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Anyone else is dissapointed with TWD RPG?

Mon 15 May 2023, 22:30

If I have to use one word to describe the RPG rules it would be "uncomplete" or "bleak". Maybe I put high expectations on the game, being written by Free League and based on a 10 year series. My though was "if they could do such an amazing work with two movies, Blade Runner, imagine 100+ hours of content and even comics!".
I was wrong, very wrong.
From the very beginning the book resumes 10 yrs of series in 2-3 paragraphs. No explanation, nothing. Just some basic idea, if you want more, go ahead and see the series, but book gives you almost no context at all.
Character creation is just a few pages, nothing else, more like a tutorial on giving you an understanding of the character you have to select, then random tables to select NPCs. Havens which could have been something with a lot of potential, again, just a few pages
Gear, Talents, Skills, all resumed to 2 or 3 lines or generic stuff. Nothing else. Combat rules are as small as 3 pages and, again, extremely basic. All items are 3 or 4 examples, want variety? same as the story, or the rules, or the character creation... work them on your own, don't trust the writes to do that.
And that's it. Throw some tables, maybe a few pictures a 40 pages scenario ( 40% of the rule book) and you get the idea.

Maybe I got the idea wrong and these are the starter rules and the full core rulebook is coming it's way or maybe it's a boardgame and not an RPG. But this is one of the worst products I saw. Being a Kickstart I cannot call it a scam, you buy stuff eyes closed, but that being said, I feel cheated.
 
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Ser Stevos
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Re: Anyone else is dissapointed with TWD RPG?

Tue 16 May 2023, 05:48

I think it's a bit premature to be saying that you're disappointed with TWD RPG. We literally got the PDF today. Furthermore, I think the rule set seems very much in line with other Free League games I'm familiar with such as Twilight: 2000 and the Alien RPG. With my overview of the rules, Free League has given us a great bedrock to tell our own stories in the Walking Dead universe. That's the entire point.
 
leandro1010
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Re: Anyone else is dissapointed with TWD RPG?

Tue 16 May 2023, 14:51

I saw a lot of KS and videos about "lite rules" and my thougth was that if they are charging full price for an item, I'll expect a complete rule book. Light on rules shouldn't mean 120 pages of tables. Want to be light on rules, complete it with context and narrative tools. I cannot understand why, in example, you have four tables for designing the prior ocupation of a zombie and just four lines for all vehicles.
I understand that either combat or rules based stuff is not important and the game aims to develop character interaction and the survival horrors of the apocaliptic infection. Don't get me wrong, anchor, havens, threats are awesome ideas, but are just that, ideas. Let's say Havens for example. I'd love to see way more context on it, rules for base building, resource gathering, issues within the haven interaction, trading, travel among places. You can even steal ideas from other games like LOTR or Alien. Move from one place to another, not tables.
The game gives you ideas and room to homebrew rules, but that's not a core rulebook, is just a starter set.
Maybe I have a bias because A) I set my expectations high when comparing to Alien or Blader Runner or Lord of the Rings, which are masterpieces and IP based RPGS and B) I was dumb enough to buy a special edition book, and instead I get a hard cover notebook.
At the end, is not about the money, I can sell the RPG eventually and get my money back. I feel sad because I really wanted to play this game and love the franchise, but the rules feel bleak and not complete at all.
 
lenardg
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Re: Anyone else is dissapointed with TWD RPG?

Tue 16 May 2023, 15:05

If I have to use one word to describe the RPG rules it would be "uncomplete" or "bleak". Maybe I put high expectations on the game, being written by Free League and based on a 10 year series. My though was "if they could do such an amazing work with two movies, Blade Runner, imagine 100+ hours of content and even comics!".
I was wrong, very wrong.
From the very beginning the book resumes 10 yrs of series in 2-3 paragraphs. No explanation, nothing. Just some basic idea, if you want more, go ahead and see the series, but book gives you almost no context at all.
I am glad I am not the only one to have similar feelings. I also found it strange that the history of the series is compressed into 2-3 paragraphs. Also, the book mentions characters from the serious without giving the tiniest of backstory or explanation for them. I did not expect spoilers or retelling the whole series, but I do expect the RPG to be playable even if I have not watched every single episode of the series.

The Alien RPG book is fully usable without you seeing the films, there is so much background material included. In fact, it is a book that any Alien fan can read and enjoy. I do not feel the same level of depth is present in the TWD RPG book. In this sense I also feel a bit disappointed in the TWD RPG book.

The rules feel like something from the starter kit rather than from a full blown RPG book. And rules light does not mean short text in my interpretation.

The editing also feels a bit weak, but I am hopeful that at least can be improved. Since the print deadline is the 28.5, I think there is not much of a chance to have more content added or content expanded.
 
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9littlebees
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Re: Anyone else is dissapointed with TWD RPG?

Tue 16 May 2023, 16:02

The designer of this game is the designer of Tales From the Loop and Vaesen, which are also the lightest games that FL have designed. He hasn't had anything to do with Alien, Blade Runner, or The One Ring. This focus on a lighter ruleset is why there is a focus on more narrative details like NPC and faction tables rather than on things like vehicle lists. The former is more important than the latter in this game's design.

Going back to comparisons with other FL games - comparing it to games from totally different genres is a bit unfair - by necessity, a game set further from our own contemporary world (the far future or in a fantasy world) need to have much more setting material than a game set in our world in the present day. Blade Runner and Alien need that fluff because they are both in the future and the main touchpoints people have (the films) only briefly touch on the wider world outside their plots. So here in TWD, we don't need a ton of background. The core rulebook is designed to provide a framework to tell sandbox stories in any location in the apocalypse in today's world, so there's really no need to provide a lot on TWD history. Characters from the show are mentioned more as Easter eggs than playable NPCs. That said, I suspect the Starter Set may have much more in the way of traditional game "fluff" (since we know that show characters were made into pregens), but I still don't see what is missing in the core rulebook other than some encyclopedic lore that simply isn't needed.

As for prep, there certainly is a fair bit for a GM to do to prep a TWD campaign, but that's the nature of a good sandbox campaign, and honestly I think having so much text to help facilitate that is awesome.

Finally, there will always be people who will be dissatisfied with a game - we all have different tastes. But being dissatisfied doesn't mean a game is bad or half-cooked. It's absolutely a full and complete rulebook and (for me at least during playtesting) a fun, deadly sandbox game.

Anyway, I'll get off my soap box now. I hope I've not offended anyone, I'm just trying to provide some perspective and a counter-argument to it having missing content. I totally understand having unfulfilled expectations - it's always a bit of a gamble with new TTRPG systems.
I make YZE games (https://drivethrurpg.com/browse.php?author=Matt%20Kay) and produce predominately Free League content on my YouTube channel (https://youtube.com/@3skulls)
 
lenardg
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Re: Anyone else is dissapointed with TWD RPG?

Tue 16 May 2023, 16:51

I will need to finish reading the books, since I am only half way through (and only skimmed the rest). But this books contains very little lore, even compared to the Tales from the loop book, which I also own and like very much. Even if TWD is set in "our" world, the zombie infested world has different dynamics and workings than our world. The book states it is based on drama, but for that I feel more lore could be explored. Digging deep into how and why people will start to behave, etc. While the sidebars and short stories do give it some justice, I feel there is more here to explore - but I will hold my final judgement until I get through the whole book in detail.

But back to Tales from the loop, that book is very well written, and the beta of the TWD RPG is not as strong.

I do wish more lore would have been added, and as I pointed out above, the editing feels weak. I am hopeful this can still be improved before the print deadline.
 
RobJN
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Re: Anyone else is dissapointed with TWD RPG?

Tue 16 May 2023, 17:34

My read of it (having not quite made my way halfway through the text) is that the book leans heavily on the readership knowing the show. Now, I am a bad Dead-head, since I abandoned the series about 3/4 through the Negan arc, and only saw a few episodes of Fear the... before I couldn't watch any more of it (Sorry, but couldn't really empathize with any of the characters -- not sure if it was the writing, acting, or directing-- but that series just didn't 'click' for me.)

Thus far what I'm reading in the Core Rulebook is a lot of broad-brush, "here are the tools for your sandbox" advice and mechanics -- I haven't yet gotten to the chapters on how to build the sandbox and put all that the general rules to use, so I'm certain further reading should have this material gel.

Coming at this from reading/playing Twilight:2000, and this "field stripped T2K" is pretty much exactly what I was looking for in a d6 iteration of those kinds of rules.

So to answer your question, no I am not disappointed.
 
Ryach
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Re: Anyone else is dissapointed with TWD RPG?

Tue 16 May 2023, 18:21

I feel like someone is trying to sell me homebrew with a full-price book. On 120 pages, we can only find tables and poorly written examples.

Lite rules are okay - I like them, but these are not just little rules; this is just a starter set. Check out the Dresden Files RPG Fate Core if you need a nice example of a good RPG with little rules.

I don't need rules on how to eat soup in the game; instead, I would like to have more well-written content and narrative tools.

In this book, not only do we lack rules, but this "core book" also misses a lot of must-have content, like more examples and options for Havens, how to trade between them, and how to manage your Haven followers, more talents, and a more about Diplomacy between Havens as well.

I don't want to mention the number of errors other readers report.

Why do we have tables everywhere instead of nice narrative examples and content like most modern systems have? (NPC SURVIVORS - Roll a D6 to determine which group of NPC Survivors you begin the game with.)

Chapter 7 is just filled with tables. Do you think you can convince people that this book was planned ahead before Kickstarter? I feel like it was just put together in the last two weeks.
(I created this kind of tables when I was 16 and played D&D 3rd edition; what is this, I ask because it's not a modern system, just Kickstarter where you pull money and quickly edit something, come on, give me a break.)

Starting Havens? Are we relly only getting one page? Chat GPT must be too expensive these days for a subscription.

Talents, Skills, and Professions - Maybe I set my expectations high when comparing them to your other games. Or maybe it's too much now, and you expect people to buy anything anyway? I hope not.

At the end of Chapter 3, could you explain this to me? A role profession or what? One paragraph of text? Most pre-generated characters from other systems have better descriptions. I'm sure you don't expect me to buy this book for those images. AI can generate most of them in one day. Even D&D 5th edition has better-written classes.

My opinion after looking at this book? The only one is, is there anywhere I can get a refund?
 
leandro1010
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Re: Anyone else is dissapointed with TWD RPG?

Tue 16 May 2023, 18:42

Thank you for your feedback (Y). I know (and it’s great!) that we don’t feel the same about the game, and other do. From my perspective, I felt like I was the only one who was shocked on how far the game was on what I supposed, but I looks that I am not. From Free League perspective, it’s a good thing to look for places to improve, and I’m pretty sure that this guys really care about their customers.
I’d like to discuss a few things.
I’m not comparing genres withing one another, I’m comparing the fact that all of them are franchises with extensive lore and fanbase to get information from. I disagree on the fact that you don’t need a background. If you are building a game that focuses on narrative, then background is not only needed, but critical. Not all of us saw the 10yrs series, expansions, comics and webseries, and you have to include that on the Core rules. And in that, the game should be more in depth that other IP franchises because you are focused on narrative.
Having a rulebook that provide sandbox rules is not a core rulebook. It’s a starter set, and you cannot charge or induce people to think that is a core rulebook, because it’s not. I completely agree on lazy work on giving table after table after table, but no narrative or in depth tools, besides tables.
I know that KS products cannot be refunded, and at some point, I can sell the RPG to someone else. But I fell completely dumb on paying Special Editin price for a rule book when is actually just a hard cover notebook. THAT is a scam.
 
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Ser Stevos
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Re: Anyone else is dissapointed with TWD RPG?

Tue 16 May 2023, 19:43

Going back to comparisons with other FL games - comparing it to games from totally different genres is a bit unfair - by necessity, a game set further from our own contemporary world (the far future or in a fantasy world) need to have much more setting material than a game set in our world in the present day. Blade Runner and Alien need that fluff because they are both in the future and the main touchpoints people have (the films) only briefly touch on the wider world outside their plots. So here in TWD, we don't need a ton of background. The core rulebook is designed to provide a framework to tell sandbox stories in any location in the apocalypse in today's world, so there's really no need to provide a lot on TWD history. Characters from the show are mentioned more as Easter eggs than playable NPCs. That said, I suspect the Starter Set may have much more in the way of traditional game "fluff" (since we know that show characters were made into pregens), but I still don't see what is missing in the core rulebook other than some encyclopedic lore that simply isn't needed.
Said better than I ever could!

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