Darklander
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Roll "Awareness" for INITIATIVE

Fri 21 Apr 2023, 15:52

I'm a little bit unsatisfied by the simplified rule that the PCs always get to act first (if not surprised). I'm missing the well-known roll for initiative from other RPGs. Do you think simply using AWARENESS for this check (and then ordering the attacks beginning with highest roll down to lowest) would work in that way or am I thinking to straight? :geek:
 
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Harlath
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Re: Roll "Awareness" for INITIATIVE

Fri 21 Apr 2023, 18:12

What's the intent/gain here? That PCs that pass their Awareness checks go first, then adversaries attack before those that fail the awareness roll?

Ordering rolls highest to lowest - TOR is mechanically normally more interested in pass/fail and 6s rolled, rather than exact totals on rolls. This is designed to speed up play and also makes 6s exciting.

I'll confess to not missing initiative rolls in this system but keen to help!

Making Awareness dictate initiative would make Strength even more important for combat, and indeed make Awareness an important skill for everyone in the company rather than just the lookout. I'm not sure this is desirable - it is nice when different PCs are good at different things, rather than everyone feeling they need to invest in X to do well at combat.
 
DarrenH
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Re: Roll "Awareness" for INITIATIVE

Fri 21 Apr 2023, 19:14

TOR already has a mechanic for determining the order in which PCs act based on the stance they choose. Would you do away with that if you adopted an Awareness roll initiative system?
 
Darklander
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Re: Roll "Awareness" for INITIATIVE

Fri 21 Apr 2023, 21:35

What's the intent/gain here? That PCs that pass their Awareness checks go first, then adversaries attack before those that fail the awareness roll?

Ordering rolls highest to lowest - TOR is mechanically normally more interested in pass/fail and 6s rolled, rather than exact totals on rolls. This is designed to speed up play and also makes 6s exciting.

I'll confess to not missing initiative rolls in this system but keen to help!

Making Awareness dictate initiative would make Strength even more important for combat, and indeed make Awareness an important skill for everyone in the company rather than just the lookout. I'm not sure this is desirable - it is nice when different PCs are good at different things, rather than everyone feeling they need to invest in X to do well at combat.
Yes, something like that (but now that you mention it I noticed that enemies don't have Awareness and thus can't make this roll, so my idea is kind of ... not thought through to the end :roll:).
But since I haven't played a single session and just read the rules, I appreciate your experience and recommendation when you say that you don't miss it at all.
And you're right: it would unbalance the game again when making Awareness one of the most important skills (not combat skills) in combat.
 
Darklander
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Re: Roll "Awareness" for INITIATIVE

Fri 21 Apr 2023, 21:35

TOR already has a mechanic for determining the order in which PCs act based on the stance they choose. Would you do away with that if you adopted an Awareness roll initiative system?
Yes, that's right respectively no: I wouldn't want to change that. My initial thought was more that the overall initiative ranking should be mixed and be open for ALL combatants, like: Orc A goes first, Hero B second, Orc B & C third, then Heroes A & C ...
Currently the heroes always go first which felt slightly unfair to me (don't ask me why, but I think I want to really "earn" my victory under fair conditions and not as a "donation" because all heroes were able to kill all enemies without losing a single Endurance Point before they even had the chance to retaliate).
 
DarrenH
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Re: Roll "Awareness" for INITIATIVE

Fri 21 Apr 2023, 22:24

Send in the trolls! Or more orcs.

But seriously, you mentioned you hadn't played yet, I would definitely suggest giving it a try before you change things. I was personally thrilled to put rolling for, and keeping track of, initiative in the rearview mirror. It's a fiddly layer of complexity that doesn't add much to the enjoyment in my opinion.

Don't get me wrong. I love a realistic combat simulation (looking at you, Phoenix Command) but that isn't really what we're doing here. What I want from TOR are fights that feel like the fights in Tolkien's writing.
 
Doktor
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Re: Roll "Awareness" for INITIATIVE

Sat 22 Apr 2023, 02:33

If you like a little spice/throwing a wrench in, you could use special combat successes of the ennemy for that once in a while: orcs are known even with their lumbering brethren to be able to crouch run in tunnels, so why not make one run up close with a 6 on the next turn and have first opportunity to hack?
 
Cleggster
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Re: Roll "Awareness" for INITIATIVE

Sun 23 Apr 2023, 00:25

It is interesting timing on this question. I am about to start my first session of 2nd edition, and I was wondering how the initiative was decided. I wasn't aware that it was PC first, I must have missed that. (Does anyone know what page that's mentioned?)

But I liked the 1rst edition's version where the defender went first. I felt it added some strategy to the conflicts. If you wanted to attack and go first, you needed to sneak up on them. I am thinking of keeping it for my new game.

Might this be a happy medium for you?
 
Darklander
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Re: Roll "Awareness" for INITIATIVE

Fri 26 May 2023, 11:31

It is interesting timing on this question. I am about to start my first session of 2nd edition, and I was wondering how the initiative was decided. I wasn't aware that it was PC first, I must have missed that. (Does anyone know what page that's mentioned?)

But I liked the 1rst edition's version where the defender went first. I felt it added some strategy to the conflicts. If you wanted to attack and go first, you needed to sneak up on them. I am thinking of keeping it for my new game.

Might this be a happy medium for you?

Have a look at page 97: "3 ACTION RESOLUTION": ... with all members of the Company going first.

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm giving it a thought when actually playing the first sessions. ;-)
 
Dunheved
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Re: Roll "Awareness" for INITIATIVE

Fri 26 May 2023, 19:22

As the L'M, if you want to stretch an ability and sometimes get the jump on the Players, use your position to mix it up a little.

E.g. Allow an Adversary with Snake like Speed to make their attack first (cost 1 Hate/Resolve If you like).

Or describe a particular Adversary as Nimble or Agile or Lithe. And then permit them to strike first in a combat round.

(Rules are rules, but entertainment is Entertainment.)

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