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Dragonbane/Drakar och Demoner Edition Numbers

Sat 18 Feb 2023, 17:42

This is just a thought, but what edition is this as far as the Swedish version is concerned? I see it can easily be Dragonbane 1E as this is the first time that name has been used, but what about the Swedish-language Drakar och Demoner? Obviously calling that 1E would be confusing.

See, now I can't stop thinking about it. Get out of my head, stupid thought! :x
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ChrilleT
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Re: Dragonbane/Drakar och Demoner Edition Numbers

Fri 03 Mar 2023, 16:36

but what edition is this as far as the Swedish version is concerned?
I don´t think any Swede even remembers by now :)
There has also been different ways of counting and discussions on how much change is needed for it to count as a new edition.

Maybe you would be able to use google translate or something like that to read this site where the confusion around Drakar och Demoner´s edition´s is talked about.
http://www.svenskarollspel.nu/wikia/Ver ... h_Demoner)
 
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Gaddeborg
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Re: Dragonbane/Drakar och Demoner Edition Numbers

Fri 03 Mar 2023, 19:18

This would be the 10th version of Drakar och Demoner officially.

However, version 6,7 and 8 was really new games not building much on the BRP-tradition of the older versions.

As I see it, the chain of games is:
DoD 1982
DoD 1984
DoD 1985+87
DoD Expert
DoD 1991+94
DoD 2016
Dragonbane

So, the seventh?
 
ChrilleT
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Re: Dragonbane/Drakar och Demoner Edition Numbers

Sat 04 Mar 2023, 23:59

This would be the 10th version of Drakar och Demoner officially.

However, version 6,7 and 8 was really new games not building much on the BRP-tradition of the older versions.

As I see it, the chain of games is:
DoD 1982
DoD 1984
DoD 1985+87
DoD Expert
DoD 1991+94
DoD 2016
Dragonbane

So, the seventh?
Bundle 91 and 94 together? They may be similar in rules but the worldbuild and feel of the game is very different. If counting Expert there may also be a case to count Samuraj and Gigant.
 
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Gaddeborg
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Re: Dragonbane/Drakar och Demoner Edition Numbers

Sun 05 Mar 2023, 00:47

Yep might be a bit too far to put together 91 and 94, but actually the rule texts were identical except for a few minor changes as I recall. The xp-table (to buy skills) was muddled up in 94. Simplified perhaps, but lost a lot in long term playability. There was also some changes in how you rolled perfect and fumble I think. Then of course there was a world description in 94 (Chronopia, which was awesome), and some new races for PC:s, but it was nothing mentioned of Chronopia in the other parts of the 94 book, just copy-paste.

Was not Gigant mostly some extra rules for Expert? About building castles and having armies? There was also DoD Ivanhoe as an expansion in the same league.

There were lots of other expansions, some of which made DoD to a whole different game rules-wise as I recall, like Krigarens Handbok to 91.

Samurai was its own game, so could be an edition… But it really felt like another game. It had no elves, ducks, halflings, dwarves or anything. It had a demon called something from a sushi menu though, Yakitoro?
 
ChrilleT
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Re: Dragonbane/Drakar och Demoner Edition Numbers

Wed 08 Mar 2023, 22:31

Yep might be a bit too far to put together 91 and 94, but actually the rule texts were identical except for a few minor changes as I recall. The xp-table (to buy skills) was muddled up in 94. Simplified perhaps, but lost a lot in long term playability. There was also some changes in how you rolled perfect and fumble I think. Then of course there was a world description in 94 (Chronopia, which was awesome), and some new races for PC:s, but it was nothing mentioned of Chronopia in the other parts of the 94 book, just copy-paste.

Was not Gigant mostly some extra rules for Expert? About building castles and having armies? There was also DoD Ivanhoe as an expansion in the same league.

There were lots of other expansions, some of which made DoD to a whole different game rules-wise as I recall, like Krigarens Handbok to 91.

Samurai was its own game, so could be an edition… But it really felt like another game. It had no elves, ducks, halflings, dwarves or anything. It had a demon called something from a sushi menu though, Yakitoro?
Yes Gigant is most famous for adding castles and such but there are also a lot of rules for making characters incl professions, skills, hero abilities, magic and so on. I know it´s there but do not really remember how similar these rules were to the ones in Expert.
 
sialivi
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Re: Dragonbane/Drakar och Demoner Edition Numbers

Mon 13 Mar 2023, 12:23

As I have played the game since the early 80s and own everything released for it (excluding Trudvang), I might be able to shed some light on this complicated topic:

Timeline
  • -- Äventyrsspel / Target Games --
  • 1982 - Drakar & Demoner (v1.0)
  • 1984 - Drakar & Demoner (v2.0) - Big update to layout and language, more content, new illustrations, new box
  • 1985 - Drakar & Demoner (v2.1) - Very minor rules revision, starter adventure replaced
  • 1987 - Drakar & Demoner (v3.0) - Rules mostly unchanged but clarified, new layout, new illustrations, some monsters replaced, slight change to the box cover
  • 1987 - Drakar & Demoner Expert - Not a new revision, just a big expansion of every aspect of the base game, still required the base game, lots of adventures and modules required Expert
  • 1987 - Drakar & Demoner Gigant - Not a new revision, just a big expansion, focused on campaign aspects
  • 1987 - Drakar & Demoner Gigant - 2nd printing of Gigant, incredibly minor revision
  • 1991 - Drakar & Demoner (v4.0) - Game is no longer divided into base game and Expert and contains overhauled content from both, introduced things like creating your character by spending background points, and occupations each received a unique ability
  • 1994 - Drakar & Demoner Chronopia (v5.0) - New layout, new illustrations, a book instead of a boxset, new campaign setting which is included with the game for the 1st time, earlier editions had a campaign setting sold separately, rules mostly the same as v4.0
  • 1994 - Drakar & Demoner Chronopia (v5.x) - 2nd printing with a couple of full color bonus pages with information about the previous campaign setting, I believe it's otherwise unchanged, printed year still says 1994 but it's possible it's actually later and this just carried over from the 1st printing
  • -- RiotMinds --
  • 2000 - Drakar & Demoner Trudvang (v6.0) - A completely different game, new company, new rules, new world, new artstyle, level based instead of skill based, Drakar & Demoner in name only
  • 2002 - Drakar & Demoner Expert - Expansion that introduced some alternative rules a bit more similar to previous editions after major backlash
  • 2003 - Drakar & Demoner Trudvang (v7.0*) - New revision, however... (continued below)
  • 2006 - Drakar & Demoner Trudvang (v8.0*) - RiotMinds counts this boxset as the 7th edition (more information under additional notes)
  • 2016 - Drakar & Demoner (v9.0) - A kickstarted "retro" throwback to the Äventyrsspels Drakar & Demoner, which disappointed a lot of the backers

Additional notes:
  • Both the 1985 and 1987 releases are referred to as the 3rd edition in their rulebooks
  • While it says 5th edition on the side of the 1994 book, the foreword says it's either 5th or 6th depending on how you count 1985's v2.1
  • RiotMinds calls their 2006 boxset the 7th edition, but most players call it the 8th because of the 2003 revision, but it can also be the 9th depending on how you count v2.1
  • Not everyone, myself included, count RiotMinds Drakar & Demoner Trudvang as Drakar & Demoner

This means, if my calculations are correct, that Fria Ligans Drakar & Demoner is either edition 7, 8, 9, 10 or 11.

I hope that clears things up ;)
 
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Melvin
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Re: Dragonbane/Drakar och Demoner Edition Numbers

Mon 13 Mar 2023, 19:12

Trudvang is... DoD?
I don't know any of them before pledging Dragonbane. But I saw some books of Trudvang (chronicles?), what's the link between them if any?
 
sialivi
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat 11 May 2013, 19:29

Re: Dragonbane/Drakar och Demoner Edition Numbers

Mon 13 Mar 2023, 19:50

Trudvang is... DoD?
I don't know any of them before pledging Dragonbane. But I saw some books of Trudvang (chronicles?), what's the link between them if any?

Essentially no link. They bought the brand after Äventyrsspel / Target Games closed down. It very much felt like an attempt to increase sales of their unrelated game by using a well-known brand name. They dropped Drakar & Demoner from the name in later editions.
 
ChrilleT
Posts: 145
Joined: Tue 04 Oct 2011, 20:04
Location: Karlskrona

Re: Dragonbane/Drakar och Demoner Edition Numbers

Fri 31 Mar 2023, 08:08

As I have played the game since the early 80s and own everything released for it (excluding Trudvang), I might be able to shed some light on this complicated topic:

Timeline
  • -- Äventyrsspel / Target Games --
  • 1982 - Drakar & Demoner (v1.0)
  • 1984 - Drakar & Demoner (v2.0) - Big update to layout and language, more content, new illustrations, new box
  • 1985 - Drakar & Demoner (v2.1) - Very minor rules revision, starter adventure replaced
  • 1987 - Drakar & Demoner (v3.0) - Rules mostly unchanged but clarified, new layout, new illustrations, some monsters replaced, slight change to the box cover
  • 1987 - Drakar & Demoner Expert - Not a new revision, just a big expansion of every aspect of the base game, still required the base game, lots of adventures and modules required Expert
  • 1987 - Drakar & Demoner Gigant - Not a new revision, just a big expansion, focused on campaign aspects
  • 1987 - Drakar & Demoner Gigant - 2nd printing of Gigant, incredibly minor revision
  • 1991 - Drakar & Demoner (v4.0) - Game is no longer divided into base game and Expert and contains overhauled content from both, introduced things like creating your character by spending background points, and occupations each received a unique ability
  • 1994 - Drakar & Demoner Chronopia (v5.0) - New layout, new illustrations, a book instead of a boxset, new campaign setting which is included with the game for the 1st time, earlier editions had a campaign setting sold separately, rules mostly the same as v4.0
  • 1994 - Drakar & Demoner Chronopia (v5.x) - 2nd printing with a couple of full color bonus pages with information about the previous campaign setting, I believe it's otherwise unchanged, printed year still says 1994 but it's possible it's actually later and this just carried over from the 1st printing
  • -- RiotMinds --
  • 2000 - Drakar & Demoner Trudvang (v6.0) - A completely different game, new company, new rules, new world, new artstyle, level based instead of skill based, Drakar & Demoner in name only
  • 2002 - Drakar & Demoner Expert - Expansion that introduced some alternative rules a bit more similar to previous editions after major backlash
  • 2003 - Drakar & Demoner Trudvang (v7.0*) - New revision, however... (continued below)
  • 2006 - Drakar & Demoner Trudvang (v8.0*) - RiotMinds counts this boxset as the 7th edition (more information under additional notes)
  • 2016 - Drakar & Demoner (v9.0) - A kickstarted "retro" throwback to the Äventyrsspels Drakar & Demoner, which disappointed a lot of the backers

Additional notes:
  • Both the 1985 and 1987 releases are referred to as the 3rd edition in their rulebooks
  • While it says 5th edition on the side of the 1994 book, the foreword says it's either 5th or 6th depending on how you count 1985's v2.1
  • RiotMinds calls their 2006 boxset the 7th edition, but most players call it the 8th because of the 2003 revision, but it can also be the 9th depending on how you count v2.1
  • Not everyone, myself included, count RiotMinds Drakar & Demoner Trudvang as Drakar & Demoner

This means, if my calculations are correct, that Fria Ligans Drakar & Demoner is either edition 7, 8, 9, 10 or 11.

I hope that clears things up ;)
I cannot remember how big the difference is in the content but there is also the Drakar och Demoner Jubileumsutgåva from 2012 with new shape and cover art at least.
Riotminds also made Drakar och Demoner Ereb Altor Vol 1 Caldarox (2019/2020) that is complete rule system.
Some also count Drakar och Demoner Samuraj.
There is also another "version" of Drakar och Demoner 91 where one includes tin figures and the other does not. If there are any other changes they were very minor so probably not enough to count as another edition.

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