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Tomas
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Feedback Thread - The Dragonbane Third-Party License

Thu 16 Feb 2023, 15:50

Hello!

Please use this thread to report errors or feedback on the draft third-party license for Dragonbane. You can access the draft license text here. Please note that you cannot yet use this license to publish anything - this is just a draft for feedback.
Please report your feedback before February 28.

Thank you!
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timgray101
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Re: Feedback Thread - The Dragonbane Third-Party License

Thu 16 Feb 2023, 16:21

Looking good!

I wonder whether it would help to define 'Module', as the whole agreement depends on it.
 
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Re: Feedback Thread - The Dragonbane Third-Party License

Thu 16 Feb 2023, 16:58

Hello, I'd like some clarification just in case, as I'm a spanish speaker. Does this license mean that I can't (or other spanish speakers) publish adventures, enemies, whatever in spanish, only in english? If yes, then it's a big no from me to this license. I feel more confortable writing in my own language and I don't see why would be needed a separate agreement to publish in a diferent language.
 
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Re: Feedback Thread - The Dragonbane Third-Party License

Thu 16 Feb 2023, 17:09

Hello, I'd like some clarification just in case, as I'm a spanish speaker. Does this license mean that I can't (or other spanish speakers) publish adventures, enemies, whatever in spanish, only in english? If yes, then it's a big no from me to this license. I feel more confortable writing in my own language and I don't see why would be needed a separate agreement to publish in a diferent language.
Please note that this particular license is only for modules for Dragonbane. If Dragonbane is published in Spanish in the future, we might very well expand the third-party license to Spanish as well.
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Re: Feedback Thread - The Dragonbane Third-Party License

Thu 16 Feb 2023, 17:56

  1. Why is the licence restricted to the 1st edition of Dragonbane? I can see the benefit in ensuring compatibility, but as there is no vetting mechanism this seems moot. It would seem easier to be able to keep using the same licence for future editions. In the current OGL climate there is also the fear an possibility that future editions may be closed off from licencing, creating potential reluctance for 3rd party publishers whose catalogue may become obsolete if they cannot update their products to the new edition. (Note this is not a slight on the integrity of the Fria Ligan of today, but as WotC demonstrated no-one can predict what the future will bring.)
  2. Agree that modules should be defined. It seems clear to me (adventures, settings, monster/ magic/ profession/ equipment/ magic item expansions?), but perhaps spell it out.[/b]
  3. SCOPE OF LICENCE - it is not clear what is meant by "You may reference [...] locations from Dragonsbane". Does this mean locations from the setting, or locations (page numbers) in the book? It sounds like the former, but as the setting and adventures are not in the rulebook - and there will presumably be future expansions - it may be better to clearly define locations in this sense.
  4. LOGO - would it be possible to change the colour of the logo to match the design of whatever product it is being put on? If not any colour, could a black and a white version be used instead to a red one, if the creator so desires?
  5. RULE MODIFICATIONS - Any particular reason why new core skills are not allowed under the licence? For example, if one wanted to produce a modern or science fiction setting. Or is the intention to restrict 3rd party products to the Misty Vale or roughly similar settings? If the latter, this should be spelled out clearly (see also point 3. locations above).
  6. On the subject of definitions, I think secondary skills needs clarification. Possibly not in the licence itself, but in the rulebook. At present secondary skills are only explained in the context of the schools of magic. What defines a secondary skill? What can it cover? Is every secondary skill based on a core skill? This is why I think it would be better to have this text in the rulebook, as it may be difficult to define while it could easily be illustrated with examples, which would not be appropriate in the licence text.
  7. INDEMNITY - this is a potentially problematic clause. There a possibility that a 3PP may have to pay legal fees or damages if someone initiates and wins legal actions against Fria Ligan based on their 3PP module. Alternatively (and this is not far-fetched), if a 3PP creates a highly controversial yet legal product which causes the online community to call for a boycott of Fria Ligan products. IANAL but I have worked as a consultant on many multi-million dollar construction projects, and no consultant was ever allowed to sign an unlimited liability agreement - and these were consultants with multi-million dollar professional indemnity insurance. I feel this may be better put as a clause to distance Fria Ligan from any action arising out of a 3rd party product, but not introducing potential 3PP liability for damages or legal expenses.
  8. MISCELLANEOUS - I agree that it would be better to clarify that any version of the licence may be used at any time, even an earlier one. This assures 3PPs that the licence terms can only improve from their point of view, or no-one would use the new licence (this was the spirit of that clause in the OGL, in spite of WotC's attempted obfustication).
I look forward to a cornucopia of Dragonbane-compatible modules! :mrgreen:
Last edited by Vile Traveller on Thu 16 Feb 2023, 18:35, edited 1 time in total.
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Śraddhāpa
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Re: Feedback Thread - The Dragonbane Third-Party License

Thu 16 Feb 2023, 18:04

Very exciting to see the draft license! I have a couple of immediate questions based on a first read-through.

It's not clear to me what would constitute a replacement of the official core rules as opposed to an addition. Say I was writing a module that was focused on a particular kin such as Halflings or Wolfkin and I wanted to introduce a rule that anyone playing a Halfing take +2 AGL and -2 STR, or that anyone playing a Wolfkin take +2 STR and -2 CHA at character creation. Would this count as an additional rule, or as a partial replacement of the rules on how to calculate Attributes? Would it make a difference if such a rule was explicitly optional?

It's not clear from Section 2 whether the core rules can be quoted in a module. It says that terminology, names of creatures, and locations can be used and that you can't include a complete copy of the core rules. But there's a lot of space in between. Can the core rules be quoted in part? This is most likely to be relevant in, for example, an adventure module that includes monsters from the core rulebook and monsters the writer of the module has created. Having stats and attack tables for some of the monsters in the module itself but having to refer back to the core rulebook for others is not very user-friendly and so writers will likely want to include the information for all monsters and NPCs in their adventure within the module itself for ease of reference. It's not clear whether or not the license permits this.
 
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Re: Feedback Thread - The Dragonbane Third-Party License

Thu 16 Feb 2023, 18:30

On the subject of definitions, I think secondary skills needs clarification. Possibly not in the licence itself, but in the rulebook.

At present secondary skills are only explained in the context of the schools of magic. What defines a secondary skill? What can it cover? Is every secondary skill based on a core skill? This is why I think it would be better to have this text in the rulebook, as it may be difficult to define while it could easily be illustrated with examples, which would not be appropriate in the licence text.
Hello! A secondary skill is any skill beyond the core skills of the game.
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Re: Feedback Thread - The Dragonbane Third-Party License

Thu 16 Feb 2023, 18:35

Very exciting to see the draft license! I have a couple of immediate questions based on a first read-through.

It's not clear to me what would constitute a replacement of the official core rules as opposed to an addition. Say I was writing a module that was focused on a particular kin such as Halflings or Wolfkin and I wanted to introduce a rule that anyone playing a Halfing take +2 AGL and -2 STR, or that anyone playing a Wolfkin take +2 STR and -2 CHA at character creation. Would this count as an additional rule, or as a partial replacement of the rules on how to calculate Attributes? Would it make a difference if such a rule was explicitly optional?
How attributes are genereated is a core rule and changing it would thus not permissable under the license. The reason behind this is that we want all third-party publications for the game under this license to be compatible with each other and with the core game.
You could, however, add new innate abilities, heroic abilities, professions, secondary skills, magic schools, spells etc unique to Halflings or Wolfkin.
It's not clear from Section 2 whether the core rules can be quoted in a module. It says that terminology, names of creatures, and locations can be used and that you can't include a complete copy of the core rules. But there's a lot of space in between. Can the core rules be quoted in part? This is most likely to be relevant in, for example, an adventure module that includes monsters from the core rulebook and monsters the writer of the module has created. Having stats and attack tables for some of the monsters in the module itself but having to refer back to the core rulebook for others is not very user-friendly and so writers will likely want to include the information for all monsters and NPCs in their adventure within the module itself for ease of reference. It's not clear whether or not the license permits this.
If using monsters from the core game in your adventure, we would recommend that you simply refer to a page in the core rules rather than copy the text.
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Re: Feedback Thread - The Dragonbane Third-Party License

Thu 16 Feb 2023, 18:38

Hello! A secondary skill is any skill beyond the core skills of the game.
So it's not a question of the scope of the skill, just that it's not listed as a "core" skill, am I correct? In other words, you could still have major skills such as "Starship Operator", but it would just be listed as a secondary skill?

Sorry for the long edit to my post, I thought it was better to make my first round of points in one place!
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Re: Feedback Thread - The Dragonbane Third-Party License

Thu 16 Feb 2023, 18:44

Can the core rules be quoted in part? This is most likely to be relevant in, for example, an adventure module that includes monsters from the core rulebook and monsters the writer of the module has created. Having stats and attack tables for some of the monsters in the module itself but having to refer back to the core rulebook for others is not very user-friendly and so writers will likely want to include the information for all monsters and NPCs in their adventure within the module itself for ease of reference.
If using monsters from the core game in your adventure, we would recommend that you simply refer to a page in the core rules rather than copy the text.
But would it be okay to have stat blocks from core rulebook monsters in a module, like those in Riddermound (specifically Speed, Movement, Armour Rating, Special Abilities, Gear, and Attacks)? Just not the descriptive text, which would not be needed in combat.
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