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Tomas
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Dragonbane Beta v3 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 7 Bestiary

Sun 05 Feb 2023, 12:18

Hi!

Please use this thread to post feedback and report any typos or errors in Chapter 7 of the version 3 Beta PDF of the Dragonbane Rulebook. Guidelines to remember:
  • Before reporting an error, please check and see if it already has been reported, and if so, don't report it again.
  • If you feedbacked on something in the the first version of the BETA but it's not changed in the version two of the BETA, it's not because we missed it - it's because we made a different assessment. (Typos are a different thing.)
Please report your feedback no later than February 28.
Thank you!
Fria Ligan
 
zcthu3
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Re: Dragonbane Beta v3 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 7 Bestiary

Sun 05 Feb 2023, 12:56

Unless I am missing something, Monsters, particularly the humanoid monsters which are treated as NPCs, and the NPCs, still have insufficient information to resist spells. Entangling Roots, Frost etc. while ineffective vs. most monsters, require a STR check by NPCs (and presumably those monsters treated as NPCs), but there is no attribute information on what their STR is. Likewise spells like Stonewall (which doesn’t say it is ineffective vs. monsters) require Acrobatics checks to avoid falling off, but most monsters and NPCs do not have this skill and there is no way to calculate their base chance of resisting this spell.

This is an issue that has been raised multiple times; there are a bunch of spells which will be used by PCs against NPCs and which the rules as written do not work.
 
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Short Fey
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Re: Dragonbane Beta v3 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 7 Bestiary

Sun 05 Feb 2023, 13:20

Page 104-105 says the following regarding ncps (which includes orcs, goblins and skeletons)

"Mechanically, NPCs function like player characters. They move, perform actions, sustain damage, and use WP in the same way. But in practice, you should disregard all rules
mechanics for NPCs if they do not directly affect a player character. Don’t roll dice for actions performed by NPCs unless they are attacking or healing a player character. You can roll for NPCs in other situations if it enhances the drama, but usually there is no need for it. Remember, an NPC rolls against the default skill level of 5 if no other level is listed."

Imo this is a step in the right direction, as now we have at least a base value that can be used. But i think this should be more clear in the rules (perhaps Monsters should have the same kind of rule on their page).

I'd also have the opinion that the Base Chance should be on the npc statblock, and potentially that it is a value the gm can decide, or have a few options to pick from, when making an npc to determine how skilled it is.
So for example.

5- Basic level, most npcs should have this.
8- Trained, meant to be a challenge.
10- Highly skilled, this is a dangerous adversary, potentially the value monsters use.
Beware the fey!
 
artikid
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon 16 Jan 2023, 16:55

Re: Dragonbane Beta v3 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 7 Bestiary

Sun 05 Feb 2023, 13:59

Page 104-105 says the following regarding ncps (which includes orcs, goblins and skeletons)

"Mechanically, NPCs function like player characters. They move, perform actions, sustain damage, and use WP in the same way. But in practice, you should disregard all rules
mechanics for NPCs if they do not directly affect a player character. Don’t roll dice for actions performed by NPCs unless they are attacking or healing a player character. You can roll for NPCs in other situations if it enhances the drama, but usually there is no need for it. Remember, an NPC rolls against the default skill level of 5 if no other level is listed."

Imo this is a step in the right direction, as now we have at least a base value that can be used. But i think this should be more clear in the rules (perhaps Monsters should have the same kind of rule on their page).

I'd also have the opinion that the Base Chance should be on the npc statblock, and potentially that it is a value the gm can decide, or have a few options to pick from, when making an npc to determine how skilled it is.
So for example.

5- Basic level, most npcs should have this.
8- Trained, meant to be a challenge.
10- Highly skilled, this is a dangerous adversary, potentially the value monsters use.
Definitely a step in the right direction.
I can live with that if they do not want to add more detail.
Now, if they did the same for Monsters, maybe with a value of 10 or 15....
 
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Tomas
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Re: Dragonbane Beta v3 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 7 Bestiary

Sun 05 Feb 2023, 16:54

Page 104-105 says the following regarding ncps (which includes orcs, goblins and skeletons)

"Mechanically, NPCs function like player characters. They move, perform actions, sustain damage, and use WP in the same way. But in practice, you should disregard all rules
mechanics for NPCs if they do not directly affect a player character. Don’t roll dice for actions performed by NPCs unless they are attacking or healing a player character. You can roll for NPCs in other situations if it enhances the drama, but usually there is no need for it. Remember, an NPC rolls against the default skill level of 5 if no other level is listed."
This rule is also now on page 33, and repeated on page 105.
Fria Ligan
 
Banquo
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Re: Dragonbane Beta v3 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 7 Bestiary

Sun 05 Feb 2023, 17:03

There are still some spells that require STR rolls to overcome (like ensnaring roots etc.) - taking the NPC default skill as 5 I assume that something similar would be used for NPC STR that can be based on any damage bonus. My assumption is to take the lowest possible values for stats that would give the bonus or skill; so D6 damage bonus would be STR 17 for rolls, D4 bonus would be 13 STR and if no bonus default to 9 (the lowest stat that would give a skill base of 5)
Is this as intended?
 
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Fenhorn
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Re: Dragonbane Beta v3 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 7 Bestiary

Sun 05 Feb 2023, 17:12

I think 10 is an even and good score to use for unknown NPC attributes, except for strength and agility that sometimes can have 13 or 17 based on damage bonus.
“Thanks for noticin' me.” - Eeyore
 
zcthu3
Posts: 121
Joined: Wed 29 May 2019, 10:34

Re: Dragonbane Beta v3 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 7 Bestia

Sun 05 Feb 2023, 20:16

I think 10 is an even and good score to use for unknown NPC attributes, except for strength and agility that sometimes can have 13 or 17 based on damage bonus.
Agree there still needs to be a default attribute and your suggestion goes part of the way. You can also have higher WILL (which will show up in higher WP) and CON (higher HP), which may be relevant (e.g. CON is used to resist poisons), so it’s not just STR and AGL that can be above the average, e.g. a guard has a damage bonus of STR +d4 so must have min STR 13, and 12 HP and no Robust HA so must have a CON of 12. All other attributes should default. Higher attributes can also lead to higher skill bases than the default of 5, but not sure it’s worth worrying about as you can list specific skills.

The more I think about it, the more I think just having the attributes on the NPC stat block would be cleaner then some rule text talking about defaulting when something isn’t listed, but I think there needs to be rules for defaulting to attributes, including for when they are clearly not average (as indicated by damage bonus, HP or WP)
 
zcthu3
Posts: 121
Joined: Wed 29 May 2019, 10:34

Re: Dragonbane Beta v3 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 7 Bestiary

Sun 05 Feb 2023, 21:30

There are still some spells that require STR rolls to overcome (like ensnaring roots etc.) - taking the NPC default skill as 5 I assume that something similar would be used for NPC STR that can be based on any damage bonus. My assumption is to take the lowest possible values for stats that would give the bonus or skill; so D6 damage bonus would be STR 17 for rolls, D4 bonus would be 13 STR and if no bonus default to 9 (the lowest stat that would give a skill base of 5)
Is this as intended?
That’s how I have been working it under Beta v2 but it doesn’t appear to be written into the rules. I also note that Hit Points (HP) can be used to back-calculate CON (by subtracting any bonus HP from the Robust Heroic Ability) for resisting poisons. If it ever becomes relevant you can also calculate Willpower from WP in the same basic way.
 
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Short Fey
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Re: Dragonbane Beta v3 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 7 Bestiary

Sun 05 Feb 2023, 21:42

IMO i think that the npc should list their STR, CON and WILL on their character sheet. Specifically if a character has a damage die, then they can have an appropriate value (such as 13 if they have a d4), while they can list CON/Will in case they have several stacks of ROBUST/focused (otherwise it is easy to calculate what their CON/WIL is, sense it is equal to their HP/WP), but otherwise if nothing else is listed assume a standard value, like 9 similar to the Skill Base Chance.

This makes it easy to keep track off, and it is primarily these three attributes that are used for effects against spells and such.
Beware the fey!
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