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Tomas
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Dragonbane Beta v3 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 3 Skills

Sun 05 Feb 2023, 12:16

Hi!

Please use this thread to post feedback and report any typos or errors in Chapter 3 of the version 3 Beta PDF of the Dragonbane Rulebook. Guidelines to remember:
  • Before reporting an error, please check and see if it already has been reported, and if so, don't report it again.
  • If you feedbacked on something in the the first version of the BETA but it's not changed in the version two of the BETA, it's not because we missed it - it's because we made a different assessment. (Typos are a different thing.)
Please report your feedback no later than February 28.
Thank you!
Fria Ligan
 
zcthu3
Posts: 121
Joined: Wed 29 May 2019, 10:34

Re: Dragonbane Beta v3 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 3 Skills

Sun 05 Feb 2023, 12:42

Great that there is now an ability for anyone to learn magic after character creation!

In regard to Master Spellcaster (p 38) it still says the Master Spellcaster Heroic Ability is limited to Mages only. I would guess (hope) that this is a typo as now non-mages can eventually get a magic school to 12+ (with lots of work) which is cool.
 
Tancred
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat 18 Jun 2022, 13:21

Re: Dragonbane Beta v3 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 3 Skills

Sun 05 Feb 2023, 12:52

The Bushcraft description still has it doing all that Hunting & Fishing can do. Bushcraft: "...lead the way through the wilderness, make camp, hunt, or fish."
 
Lordbahj
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri 27 Jan 2023, 15:59

Re: Dragonbane Beta v3 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 3 Skills

Sun 05 Feb 2023, 18:27

So the paragraph on Professions on page 13 states you get five skills from your professions, but on page 24 it states that you select six from your profession and add additional skills based on age. So does your profession give you five or six skills?

Edit: I now see that it appears the page 13 statement of five skills seems to be the outlier and it appears to be universally accepted that it's six skills.
Last edited by Lordbahj on Mon 06 Feb 2023, 14:07, edited 1 time in total.
 
Banquo
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed 31 Aug 2022, 10:35

Re: Dragonbane Beta v3 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 3 Skills

Sun 05 Feb 2023, 18:29

Minor typo: Multiple Boons/Banes has 2 period marks at the end of the paragraph (page 32)
 
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Kaybe
Posts: 136
Joined: Fri 14 May 2021, 18:26

Re: Dragonbane Beta v3 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 3 Skills

Sun 05 Feb 2023, 18:36

Page 31 - Attribute Rolls: Recommend removing the word base in base attribute. This may confuse players who think that maybe attribute rolls are done using a base skill rather than the attribute itself. So for example, someone thinking that an attribute roll with Strength 12 is rolled under a 5 instead of a 12.

Page 34 - Persuasion: There doesn't seem to be an Intimidation type skill. Are intimidation attempts rolled using Persuasion? If so, are they resisted by WIL? Or perhaps Intimidation is rolled using Bluff instead if it involves tricking someone into believing there's a threat where there is none?

Page 34 - Bushcraft / Hunting and Fishing: Still says you use Bushcraft to hunt or fish despite there now being a separate Hunting and Fishing skill. I'll be honest, I prefer when only Bushcraft existed and not a separate Hunting and Fishing skill. *Especially* since the rules for Hunting and Fishing rules later talk about rolling on the Agility based Hunting and Fishing to set traps. Strongly recommend getting rid of it and just sticking to Bushcraft for all Survival based rolls. And using the weapon skill (when not using traps) as is now for attacking animals that have been found using Bushcraft as per the Hunting and Fishing rules.

Page 34 - Sneaking: A bit of confusion saying you can't make a Sneaking roll if you're not aware of anyone around. How does that work if there are others around that might not be aware you're there either? Is there a hidden Sneaking vs Awareness roll made by the GM?
 
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Gaddeborg
Posts: 256
Joined: Tue 18 Feb 2014, 17:40

Re: Dragonbane Beta v3 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 3 Skills

Mon 06 Feb 2023, 11:42

The opposed rolls mechanic has been discussed in other threads on the forum, but not in the actual feedback threads.

Opposed rolls does not in any meaningful way take the passive parts skill level into account, but is simply a skill roll with a bane-like mechanic that favours the unskilled. See this table done by SirD (passive is y-axis, active is x-axis):

Image

This gives rise to a number of unwanted artifacts in the game:

-A powerful NPC is very vulnerable from the special attacks of grappling, disarming and toppling, since NPC:s are not allowed to dodge or parry special attacks (where they could use their full skill level), but instead has to defend with a skill level that is “capped” to that of their attacker.

-For example: A knight with sword 18 attacked by an unarmed peasant with Brawling 7, will never be able to defend with any skill level over 7 if the disarm hits. This gives the peasant a whooping 30% chance of success to disarm, compared to the rough 4% chance of landing an ordinary attack.

-There is nothing the knight can do about this 30% even if he has all the heroic abilities and 18 in all his values, if the peasant has won the initiative.

-Further, your CON-value has almost no meaning when you try to withstand poison or disease.

-Your WIS-value has almost no meaning when trying to withstand someone trying to use DOMINATE on you.

-It’s no real difference in trying to Persuade the town major (WIS 18) or the town drunk (WIS 5).

In the rules for opposed rolls it says that they should be used sparingly, but since PC:s can decide for themselves how often they should use the special attacks in combat, this will not be able to be implemented by all GM:s.

Opposed rolls in combat in their current form has all the signs of a "broken" mechanic. There are numerous viable options and possible fixes discussed in these threads:

https://forum.frialigan.se/viewtopic.ph ... 3&start=10
https://forum.frialigan.se/viewtopic.php?t=10659
 
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Kaybe
Posts: 136
Joined: Fri 14 May 2021, 18:26

Re: Dragonbane Beta v3 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 3 Skills

Mon 06 Feb 2023, 16:40

My own beef with opposed rolls is that the winner is the one that rolled lowest instead of highest while still succeeding like it's done in every other BRP game following a similar format. It basically removes the advantage of a highly skilled individual. I already have a thread about that in these forums, so wasn't going to bring it up again. All I know is that if the opposed roll rules remain as is, I'll just personally house rule that highest successful roll wins to match the experience of players familiar with other BRP games.

EDIT: Interesting idea I found in Delta Green. In that system, if both succeed, it's highest roll that wins ... BUT ... if both *fail*, then it's lowest roll that succeeds. I'll have to dig through my other BRPs now to see if they also have the lowest failure mechanic. Mind you, how often that might come up is anyone's guess since most of the time, if the active party fails, then there's no need for opposition in the first place.
 
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Garmr
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon 06 Feb 2023, 16:36

Re: Dragonbane Beta v3 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 3 Skills

Mon 06 Feb 2023, 17:16

A minor observation, but I find it a little odd that some Heroic Abilities, like Contortionist and Lone Wolf, will just allow to bypass a check on the same skills they have as a requisite. While on one hand it makes sense, it's a bit weird to make your character good at one skill only to then get an ability that makes you not need that skill value anymore (even if these heroic abilities only cover certain applications of those skills).
In this sense, I suggest maybe it could be more rewarding if these abilities could be used when you fail one of the relevant checks to turn it into a success, instead of letting you bypass the check before rolling (maybe costing 2 WP instead of 1 to make up for it). This way the user would still feel 'rewarded' for their skill score, since being good at a skill means they'll need to use the heroic ability less often, while accomplishing the same result of allowing them to choose not to fail the check for a WP cost.
 
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MacDhomnuill
Posts: 38
Joined: Wed 07 Dec 2022, 06:32
Location: Kansas, US

Re: Dragonbane Beta v3 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 3 Skills

Tue 07 Feb 2023, 00:29

Posting here since there is no gear chapter feedback threat for v3.
All musical instruments entries on pg 75 reference a music ability, it should be the musician ability.
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