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Dizzyfugu
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Re: Reforged Power 2.0 Alpha/Beta

Sat 12 Aug 2023, 09:53

I appreciate the idea of giving low Strength characters a kind of "airbag" thorugh Pain Resistant, esp. when you do not use the "advanced" melee rules/options (does anyone, anyway?). I am trying to keep a flimsy and deliberately only lightly armored ST 3 elf hunter alive, and ANY close combat encounter has so far been death-threatening (elven Kin Talent is VERY useful!). The option to outfit a character with a "if-ST-goes-exactly-zero-it-doesn't-matter" trick is IMHO good, because at low ST you quickly "collect" critical hits and have a hard time defending aginst them. The trigger condition is also quite limited and not as "strong" as Fearless, which always works (and is IMHO at Rank 3 overpowered - there should be no immunities?).
I also like the Rank 1 benefit ("Gain a +1 modifier to all Strength skill rolls when your Strength is damaged."), even though I am not certain if it is not too generous? But if Fearless is the benchmark, it's IMHO O.K.

Concerning further effects for Path of the Stalker 2, I would not add/use any, also to keep things simple. Having the option to get away from a direct conflict and/or gain a tactical position for a surprise strike (next round) is IMHO benefit enough, and I'd also limit the costs to 1 WP per use. I think that the Talent's use is very situational and that the GM has to have a final say about the Talent's applicabilaty and maybe additional dice roll mods (e.g. when the character tries to hide from a group of enemies, or if there are heightened senses involved).
 
JohanR
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Re: Reforged Power 2.0 Alpha/Beta

Fri 18 Aug 2023, 03:15

Link to 2.4.3 BETA.
Changes:

Player's booklet:

Page 11: Readied items - Added that you can try to draw a "non-readied" item as a fast action with a slight of hands roll, to further extend the use of that skill
Page 12: MAJOR CHANGE: Maximum known spells - Simplified this A LOT! But the new version will probably still feel like a slight nerf. But I think it reads a lot better like this. And spell casters has gained a lot of power in Reforged Power. Still, don't force changes like this on your players.
Page 20: Pushed rolls out of combat - Added that such rolls normally cannot be healed until the task is completed
Page 29: MAJOR CHANGE: Path of the stalker - rank 2
Page 46: MAJOR CHANGE: Pain resistant: alternative first ranks - Changed rank 1 and 2. I guess the low levels are less powerful than before. But the talent should be worthwhile for low Strength characters.
Page 49: Solid drinker - improved rank 2, but that edge is lost and it stays the same as before when ranking up to 3
Page 51: Wanderer: Adds stamina for extended work - New extended usage of the wanderer talent
Page 61: Ore is heavy - New section
Page 64: New image - Public domain, credits add to second page
Page 81: New image - Public domain, credits add to second page
Page 95: Exotic wood changed to its newer name ironwood, added info on what to use if module that adds ironwood isn't used
Page 104: Combat events - New section
Page 113: MAJOR CHANGE: Prepare magic - change it to duration permanent (until used), but when you cast it, you can have a maximum amount of prepared spells equal to the Power Level.
Page 114: Call Familiar - fixed typo
Page 117: New image - Public domain, credits add to second page
Page 149: New image - Public domain, credits add to second page
Page 151: MAJOR CHANGE: Elemental Infusion - made more action oriented

Gamemaster's booklet:

Page 22: New encounters - adjusted table to add new encounter
Page 49: New encounter: A troll in marriage - Loosely based on the song Herr Mannelig
Page 114-123: MAJOR CHANGE: LEGENDARY MONSTERS - An entirely new chapter (unfortunately also very untested)
Page 124-131: Page numbers changed

---------

It would be very good if someone could proofread these changes! I haven't gotten time to do it myself, and it will probably be needed.
Also please say if you liked any of the old rules better than the new!
I also saw that people complained a bit on how much a single farmer could do, etc, in the original rules, and my players also did that, so I will maybe look at that too?
But otherwise I feel quite done with what could become 3.0.

In other news my players are currently facing an epic fight against General Archa, leader of the Roka orcs, that will storm them with around 200 orc warriors during their next session. The orcs began with a siege, stole the players wood and has begun to build siege ladders with that.
He would normally win the fight, but the players managed to fix a hole in their defenses the orcs knew about, just a week before the attack will take place, and also managed to sneak in some reinforcements, after killing of some orc scouts.
So that will be interesting. And it will be good to further test the mass combat rules.
 
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Dizzyfugu
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Re: Reforged Power 2.0 Alpha/Beta

Fri 18 Aug 2023, 09:31

Cool, thank you! Is there already a publishing date on the horizon for V3.0?
 
JohanR
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Re: Reforged Power 2.0 Alpha/Beta

Fri 18 Aug 2023, 22:43

Is there already a publishing date on the horizon for V3.0?
As soon as one or two of you have read through the major changes (just skip the minor ones), here, here and here and maybe given some okeys/critique on them, and also found some errors in the newly written Legendary Monsters chapter (I would guarantee that there will be typos and more here, as I wrote that fast and late yesterday), then I can probably release. So I guess it will take between 2 days and a very long time?

Other thing that could be touched, but I likely will not:
- A farmer doesn't do much per year, assuming each week is 7 days and each month contain at least 6 weeks (since there are only 8 months). A farmer can alone tend to 6 maybe 7 fields during fall, and then at the same time take care of around 14 gardens during spring and summer, and not have anything special to do during winter. And then 1 miller and 1 baker would turn all the yield from the 6-7 fields into bread during 1½-2 months, and not have much to do for 6+ months. While I don't think it would be a great idea to turn all grain into flour or into bread over such a short period of time, it still highlights that the world really doesn't need many mills or bakeries. A tailor will make make cloth of an entire sheepfold in a day (making 24 cloth from wool in a day in preindustrial times is what I would call as being highly productive!), so they could also have quite a few days off per year, even if they so spend a whole lot of time making clothes from said wool cloth.
All this said, I'm, not sure on how to change this. So I'll likely just not do that. Maybe in the future as a collaboration thing, like if someone else makes cool rules, I could add them.
- I could add more spells, I actually have some very cool ideas for a lot of new spells.. even including some level 6 spells... but I don't feel that more spells would really be necessary? So my gut feeling tells me to just not add them. Maybe again as a collaboration thing, if someone else also is interested.
- More encounters could perhaps also be a future collaboration thing? But I am pretty happy with what I have.
- I could add other things too I guess, if some of you think that something else could be added. But I feel that it is kind of good enough as it is now?
 
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Dizzyfugu
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Re: Reforged Power 2.0 Alpha/Beta

Sat 19 Aug 2023, 11:02

Concerning more spells I actually find it more than enough "as is", even though new/exotic magis is always cool 8-) . I have also been working on spells myself and try to put a new druidic Path together, but that takes time and thinking, and there is actually no real way of play-testing the stuff here, so it's rather a mental exercise. I am also thinking about an alternative spellcasting process that involves a kind of Skill test to define the effective Power Level and eventual mishaps and their severity, just add a less predictable mechanism, but that's again only a theoretical project (so far).

However, as a personal suggestion, I'd emphasize the general challenge to introduce the new spells in an ongoing campaign. If the new spells in Rank 1-3 are just added or "unlocked" "on the go", spellcasters will find themselves with a ~40% enlarged spell arsenal over night, since the spells come automatically with the Ranks in the respective Paths. While there is nothing technically wrong with this I find it to be a sudden and massive expansion of capabilities - at zero cost? Other Professions do not receive such a benefit, they can buy an optional new 4th Path now, but that's far from what spellcasters technically receive?

That's why I personally like the WITS TO LEARN MAGIC module a lot to introduce (not only) the new stuff as well as Rank 4 &5 magic, because it makes gradual introduction IMHO more balanced and individual. However, when the module FLATTEN SKILL COST is used, I'd personally not require an additional separate improvement of the Paths as prerequisite for higher Spell Ranks, though. it becomes, with 5 instead of 3 XP, quite expensive? On the other side, if magic is supposed to be something special and limited, it might be O.K..
My suggestion, though: To learn magic in a (new) Path the spellcaster must start with a Rank 1 spell, and at the same time acquire the Path as a rankless "basic knowledge" package about the Path's mechanics, technically at Rank 1 but it has no further effect or limitation. This costs 10 XP to enter a new Path, and a 2nd Rank 1 spell will cost 5 XP, like a new Talent. The effective Rank in that Path is then automatically defined by the highest spell Rank the character knows, which must be "purchased" individually like a Talent of that Rank (e .g. 10 XP for a Rank 3 Spell) and follow the restriction that you can only learn a Spell that is one Rank higher than the highest Rank already known, also applying the WITS TO LEARN MAGIC module with the learning options (teacher, grimoire, DIY)? Feels quite organic to me instead of mostly relying on a teacher, and you do not have have to hoard XP and hope to come across a willing teacher some day.
 
JohanR
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Re: Reforged Power 2.0 Alpha/Beta

Sat 19 Aug 2023, 20:29

However, as a personal suggestion, I'd emphasize the general challenge to introduce the new spells in an ongoing campaign. If the new spells in Rank 1-3 are just added or "unlocked" "on the go", spellcasters will find themselves with a ~40% enlarged spell arsenal over night, since the spells come automatically with the Ranks in the respective Paths.
Yes, but I do note this already, should I emphasize it even more? On page 109, under the "New Spells" module, it reads: "WARNING! This puts a lot more utility power in the hands of your spellcasters, so perhaps limit them by using the “Maximum known spells” module, or add an xp sink, like the curator of magic talent (see the module above) in order to learn these “new” spells, or just do not allow free access to them. Maybe just as rewards from very rare to find grimoires or so."
And on page 12 "Maximum known spells" it also mentions new spells as a main reason for why you should consider adding this module.
And if you do use the “Maximum known spells” module, you would not really learn more spells than before, unless you either get a very high Wits or put XP into the optional "Curator of magic" talent?
If you don't like the "Maximum known spells" module, well I guess it would be up to you as a GM to figure out if and how you would limit things. Starting with using the "Wits to learn magic" or a variation of it could likely be good? Or/and maybe add an XP cost for learning more than the normal amount of spells? So it will be more of up to you as a GM to put together something you feel that you are ok with?

...it becomes, with 5 instead of 3 XP, quite expensive? On the other side, if magic is supposed to be something special and limited, it might be O.K.
My take was that rank 4 and 5 talents where supposed to be really expensive and not really worth to focus on straight away. More of a thing to get in a long campaign when you feel you have covered all your other bases, just so that there always would be some "unreachable" goal out there. But magical high level talents are probably worth a more then a lot of other high level profession talents, so I still think a high level sorcerer or druid can be viable. That is why most of them at higher levels also gain some spells to juggle around some WP.
But I mean you do not have to keep them at high cost. The modules are optional, and you could introduce your very own costs! I have heard from others that they have reduced the cost for rank 4 and 5.
Personally, I just increase the xp my party gets instead, as that keeps them happy.

...My suggestion, though: To learn magic in a (new) Path the spellcaster must start with a Rank 1 spell, and at the same time acquire the Path as a rankless "basic knowledge" package about the Path's mechanics, technically at Rank 1 but it has no further effect or limitation...
I have tried to introduce minimal changes to in order to change specific game mechanics. And while I might sometimes have failed to make them feel minimal, I at least try to keep as much core mechanics as possible. This is the very reason why I threw out my crafting rules from 1.X. It was not because I though they were bad, they just changed too much. And the reason the module to only roll D6:as as resources even made it in, was mostly because of the "Add resource die to rolls" module, as I think it feels natural to add resources to rolls like this, like adding an extra D6 of another color to an archery roll just to better track ammunition usage.
...so does it solve things better while keeping core rules as intact as possible? I would need to think more about that first.
 
JohanR
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Re: Reforged Power 2.0 Alpha/Beta

Tue 22 Aug 2023, 19:37

Having defeated the 240 orcs, well most of them fled in the end. Me and my players still think that the reputation based events at the Stronghold happens too often.
They really liked that defeating a major army gave them a "titel" to the Stronghold, that gives a -2 reputation modifier to future event rolls (Reforged Power, Gamemaster's booklet (page 97 in the 2.4.3-BETA)).

But I don't think that is enough, so I proposed a new rule module. That the Stronghold event table takes a further -1 reputation modifier per full unit of guards (normally 10) stationed there. It makes guards deter people from causing trouble and I think that is just kind of logical? It will never stop Stronghold events, just reduce the rate of the high end results. It also makes guards more "useful" outside Stronghold combat too.
Come to think of it, perhaps it should even be -2 per full unit of guards? They are really expensive...

PS. If you would want me to release an official 3.0 version, please consider giving me some feedback on the implemented major changes in the BETA-material.
 
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Dizzyfugu
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Re: Reforged Power 2.0 Alpha/Beta

Thu 24 Aug 2023, 10:34

RefP 2.4.3 PHB, p. 36: typo "Ambidextrous" in the Talent's headline

Wouldn't it make sense to combine the CHANGED BROKEN STATUSES (p.54) and the descriptions from the CRITICAL INJURIES - BREAKING YOURSELF module (p. 59) into one entry? At least a page reference number would be nice, because you will have to flip through the pages to find the description.

I have also a general question concerning the Free Action Limitation module and its application, e .g. for Fast Footwork. If I use the Free Dodge outside the normal action sequence (Rank 1), no Talent bonus like the Rank 2 +1 die apply. However, when I spend a Fast Action for Rank 3 to dodge an unlimited number of attacks, the Rank 2 bonus applies - but does it do so for all dodge attempts (which are, IMHO, beyond the 1st one, Free Actions, but the Talent description sounds as if this was the case or the intention?), or maybe just for the first roll, and any following dodge rolls in that round do not benefit from other Talents because they occur "out of sequence"?
 
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DaydreamDaveyy
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Re: Reforged Power 2.0 Alpha/Beta

Thu 24 Aug 2023, 11:26

Oh you guys been at work, I see!

PS. If you would want me to release an official 3.0 version, please consider giving me some feedback on the implemented major changes in the BETA-material.
No problem, here's my 2 cents! I underlined the most important observations.

Player's Booklet:
  • (p.10) Willpower Threshold - good to go, not really a major change from my perspective haha
  • (p11) Readied items - Good change!
  • (p12) Maximum known spells - going with the mechanics similar to Willpower calculation is a good way to reinforce this in my opinion, good job
  • (p29) Path of the Stalker rank 2 - could be clarified if moving one zone is allowed when Engaged with an enemy.
  • (p.33) Alternative Path of the Killer rank 3 - leaning into rogue archetype with only light weapons is good thing! But we have to remember that there's a Backstabber talent, which comes somewhat close to this alternative Rogue talent. Well, maybe it's good that it enhances it...?
  • (p.35) Acrobat talent - MUCH better than Athletic, this is really good addition.
  • (p.40) Diver talent - looking at this talent alone, it is greatly improved from the old version. But personaly, I would get it only for RP reasons probably, at least until we'll get The Sparse expansion - there just isn't enough water to really play with this talent.
  • (p.42) Fleet-Footed - Cool, cinematic talent, nothing here to criticise.
  • (p46) Pain resistant: alternative first ranks - remaking this talent as more defensive is great, would make an awesome talent for my players, if they weren't dead-set on becoming the worst adventurers in Raven Lands :D
  • (p51) Wanderer - good addition
  • (p.55) Burn includes cold - Makes sense, good addition Johan
  • (p61) Ore is heavy - was used in my game from the beginning, but it's good that it is now written somewhere. It's really strange that raw goods/materials don't have their weight written anywhere in core books, is it?
  • (p.70) Just a clarification, in the 2.4.1 Beta changelog you say ""Heavy brigandine", now -1 move, uses more iron, cost changed." - in 2.3 version the cost is 5 Iron, 3 Cloth, and in new version it's 3 Iron, 2 Cloth, so it "uses LESS iron" :) Good changes, light brigandine being more Tailor than Smith armor makes sense.
  • (p73) Tools are needed for repeairs - Light brigandine gives 4 AR, and so do Scale armor from hardened leather, so it's only "price wise better looking" (you say "stat and price wise" in the info box)
  • (p82) Survey mishap - I'm not sold on effect #6, the damage to Wits seems... Out of place? There's fear attacks, and that's the only instance of Wits damage besides magic. I get it, feeling of being watched SHOULD induce paranoia in players and their characters, but I don't know if this is a good way going about it. I would either change it to Fear attack using 2-3 dice (let's remember that we have a Fearless talent), or remove Wits damage factor entirely and only left the second part, about "if you're going to probe further, whoever or whatever watches you right now could ambush you".
  • (p85) Recruitment of residents - Nothing to add here, just a good change. I really love the idea that you recruit hirelings, they come in for money, but stay in because they start to believe in your cause.. Or, you know, in safety of your walls :) (sorry, too much playing Dragon Age recently!)
  • (p95) Shelter - love the new effect
  • (p96) Town hall - ever so slightly more useful, good for players!
  • (p101) Alternative varied forces - I don't really understand where these values for unit points come from. "The unit points for regular soldiers with an armor rating of 6 is 15" - can you explain what this value is comprised of? And another in "So, orc soldiers could have an armor rating of 3 and still be 15 "unit points"" - can you, in an example, add and substract this unit points to achieve 15 points?
  • (p104) Combat events - cool new little table, I like it, not having to wing effects on the fly from the vanilla table.
  • (p132) Metal vs Ligthning spells - maybe it's worth adding WHY is this box included, i.e. "here's an explanation as to why only metal armor protects you from lightning spells" :)
  • (p136) Lord of Flies - to properly review this change, I asked an expert in this field (my fiancee, playing druid of Path of Insects). Her opinion is as follows: "oh, that's niiiice" ;D
  • (p151) Elemental Infusion - to properly review this change, I asked an expert in this field (my best friend, playing Sorcerer of Path of Elements). His opinion is as follows: "This finally makes sense!" xD
Gamemaster's Booklet:
  • (p8) Survey the Land - Neatly done, Johan. As I mentioned above, we need to add as much usefulness to water hexes as possible.
  • (p49 A Troll in Marriage - I cannot comprehend if I'm amused or deeply touched by this event ;D. Awesomely written, thank you for it!
  • (p92) The Grimoire of Ab'n-Rakul - wow, that's a great artifact.
  • (p114) Legendary Monsters - Oh that is an AWESOME addition! Quick glance proved some typos:
    - Entwined Fate, Clues section: "Ather a they heal..." - should follow up with round, probably?
    - Possessed, Effect section: "Roll for a demon on page XXX in the Gamemaster's Guide..."
    - need to put real number here
"Many fall in the face of Chaos. But not this one - not today."
 
JohanR
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Re: Reforged Power 2.0 Alpha/Beta

Fri 25 Aug 2023, 01:25

Nice finds, Dizzyfugu!
Will fix the typo.

Wouldn't it make sense to combine the CHANGED BROKEN STATUSES (p.54) and the descriptions from the CRITICAL INJURIES - BREAKING YOURSELF module (p. 59) into one entry? At least a page reference number would be nice, because you will have to flip through the pages to find the description.
Haha, yeah. It is just that this document is so bloated with information, that I had a hard time making room for both next to one another. I can see what I can do though.

I have also a general question concerning the Free Action Limitation module and its application
It was intended to apply to the first roll, and any following dodge rolls in that round do not benefit from other Talents as they are considered free.
I will try to update the booklet with some extra clarifications.
An on top of that, I am very much considering if rank 4 probably should apply to free dodges too? Just because parrying is often so much better, as you can stack so many artifact dice from so many more sources on that roll (both from weapon talents like shield fighter or sword fighter, on top of defender, and then from holding a weapon with an artifact dice), none of which can apply to dodge rolls.

---------

And oh, thank you DaydreamDaveyy!
Very good feedback as always, and so amazingly written too, it actually made me laugh out loud.
I will try to make an update asap.

Player's Booklet:
  • (p11) Readied items - I will actually update it again. Stating that you can draw as a fast action if readied, or as a slow action if not, or try to chance draw a non-readied item as a fast action with a sleight of hand roll. So that kind of all bases are covered. Any interactions with the fast draw talent should probably also be mentioned somewhere.
  • (p29) Path of the Stalker rank 2 - Good find. Will update! Easiest would be to disallow if in arm's length? It would be kind of hard to hide from that position, so probably just makes sense.
  • (p.33) Alternative Path of the Killer rank 3 - I know. I'm not completely happy with it. It is a bit too much on the complicated side.
  • (p.40) Diver talent - I agree that it isn't amazing as a talent, and that it feels very situational. But hard to improve. With a lenient GM you could perhaps gain some additional uses, like holding your breath while fighting s troll, to avoid or have a chance to avoid some of its stink, etc.
  • (p.70) "Heavy brigandine", oh an error in the . But come to think of it, I should probably increase the Iron use for heavy brigandine to 4, and reduce the iron in light brigandine to 1. That light brigandine uses 2 and still is not considered heavy will otherwise make little sense, with all that cloth usage? since chainmail use 3 iron only, and is considered heavy.
  • (p73) Tools are needed for repairs - Light brigandine gives 4 AR, and so do Scale armor from hardened leather, so it's only "price wise better looking" (you say "stat and price wise" in the info box) <-- I can look at it, In my mind I though of "stat wise" as it could be considered better since it doesn't roll half vs stabs. But, I'll improve the text.
  • (p82) Survey mishap - Good find, I didn't like that effect either. But was in a hurry and did kind of forget it. Will change!
  • (p101) Alternative varied forces - Good find. I will clarify this better. The rating can be seen as given by their stats, like from attributes, skills, armor and so on, but I thought that it wasn't super important, what is important is most that if you add a +1 bonus to attack, it goes up to 16 and so on. But I will add an example of why it is considered 15 to begin with. As for the Orcs, I said that they would have a Strength one higher than a regular soldier giving +3 "points", but if they normally would have an armor rating around 3 or so, that is around 3 points lower than your average guard, then that would give -3 "points", leaving them on kind of equal terms. Will improve the writing here too!
  • (p132) Metal vs Ligthning spells - Will add a better explanation of why!

Gamemaster's Booklet:
  • (p114) Legendary Monsters - Good finds! Will fix the typos, and perhaps get the time to read through it myself too >.<
    [/quote]

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