Raven
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Joined: Thu 12 Jan 2023, 23:09

No Clerics

Thu 12 Jan 2023, 23:20

Hi,
I made a late Pledge a few days ago because I wasnt aware of Dragonbane until late ecember. Since this time I am totaly obsessed with this RPG. The system seems like the perfect match for my needs. I gues im a little bit late to the party but I try to keep up now.
I noticed that there is no Cleric / Priest profession in the beta and no skill for religion etc. (maybe Myth & Legends could work). Is there a reason for this?
Normaly I would take the Mage and a apropriate magic ability but Mages cant wear any armor.
If this subject has been covered please redirect me.
 
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VorpalMace
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Re: No Clerics

Fri 13 Jan 2023, 11:10

Clerics in armour is a D&D thing and not present in most games. The editions of DoD I'm familiar with had a single magic system and a single magician profession that covered everything from priests to wizards to druids - it's all just flavour and your choice of spells. I dare to say the quasi-christian crusader D&D clerics don't fit into most settings and I don't miss them from here either. If you want some kind of priest, just go with the mage profession and flavour it to fit your concept.
 
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MacDhomnuill
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Re: No Clerics

Fri 13 Jan 2023, 19:19

I like the way the beta uses magic, but I too want a divine magic user in my home setting. My solution is to use either As the Gods Demand (an OSR system agnostic divine magic system) or port divine magic over from Harn Master.
 
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Short Fey
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Re: No Clerics

Fri 13 Jan 2023, 19:59

Could just pick a mage and reflavor it to be cleric. "I got my magical powers in service of my god". If anything Animism is a good option for "Holy" magic, having healing powers but also Banish/purge which deals with "Unholy undead and demons".
Beware the fey!
 
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MacDhomnuill
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Re: No Clerics

Fri 13 Jan 2023, 23:52

Re-flavoring can work, but I like to make clerics/priests work for that magic both rule sets above lean hard on role play to earn favor/piety that they can spend on divine spells. They both want the PC to have to live up to the religious code their deity has set and need to perform religious acts of devotion to earn favor. As an example we had a priestess of a healing god and for her to earn favor to “cast” she needed to do things like attend temple prayers, work in hospitals, provide medical aid to those need etc. She also had to avoid harming people, and render aid when ever possible.
 
Vatrachos
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Re: No Clerics

Sun 15 Jan 2023, 06:43

"Clerics" (a la D&D) were never really a thing in old Drakar och Demoner. However, there was such a thing as "divine gifts", sacred abilities. If I were to introduce them in this system, they would be heroic abilities, available only to servants of a specific deity.
 
Raven
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Re: No Clerics

Sun 15 Jan 2023, 17:06

Thank you all for the replys.
I agree that clerics in armor are a clyche (maybe D&Dish) but it is one of the Iconic charakter archetypes at day.
A Cleric without armor could be for shure made with the beta rules and the animism spelllist. Especialy druids or priests of nature related gods are no real problem. But what about
a hammer whielding warpriest? Shouldnt they wear armor? In my undestanding this edition of the game is designed to work as a generic system. A generic system should deliver everything to play the stereotypical charakters from other worlds and backrounds.
Do you think the restriction to wear armor as a spellcaster is because of ballancing or a leftover from previous editions?
 
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Short Fey
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Re: No Clerics

Sun 15 Jan 2023, 17:27

Thank you all for the replys.
I agree that clerics in armor are a clyche (maybe D&Dish) but it is one of the Iconic charakter archetypes at day.
A Cleric without armor could be for shure made with the beta rules and the animism spelllist. Especialy druids or priests of nature related gods are no real problem. But what about
a hammer whielding warpriest? Shouldnt they wear armor? In my undestanding this edition of the game is designed to work as a generic system. A generic system should deliver everything to play the stereotypical charakters from other worlds and backrounds.
Do you think the restriction to wear armor as a spellcaster is because of ballancing or a leftover from previous editions?
Tbh i have never really liked the idea of clerics wearing armor. I always found that more of a Templar/Paladin/Knight thing, which we kinda already have minus the magic. Clerics to me have always been robed monks and priests, who maybe at best are armed with a war mace or such, but never been full on "warriors".
As for the restriction, i think it is a bit of both. It is something that to my understanding (I have not played any of the older editions) have always been part of the game, but i kinda like the idea that if you wanna use magic, you can not use iron equipment, both as a nerf but also as a narrative thing (i recon it takes inspiration from cold iron).

Something i would prefer over having an "Cleric class" specifically would be something that could be more universally applied to "religious fantasy archetypes". Like perhaps "Acolyte", which could be applied to such positions such as priests and clergymen, cultists (be the thing they worship or not, you can be a cultist without being evil), druids or shamans etc. It might not start magical but i found fun the idea fun to play.
Beware the fey!
 
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finarvyn
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Re: No Clerics

Sat 21 Jan 2023, 18:08

I've played D&D since the 1970's, so clerics were always part of my campaigns. However, recently I have been re-evaluating this and have been thinking about what the setting could be like without the cleric. Undead become a lot more scary. Combat can be a lot more lethal. the philosophy of the game is very different and I think I like it better. My D&D plan is to have more healing potions and ways to work around that part.

DoD is designed without the cleric. I think that I want to give that a try as-is before I start to house rule the cleric into the game.
Marv / Finarvyn
Fell in love with Tales from The Loop, Vaesen, 5E LotRR ... Now hooked on Dragonbane, which still should be called Drakar och Demoner IMO. Played OD&D since 1975..
 
Nagisawa
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Re: No Clerics

Thu 26 Jan 2023, 05:53

Tbh i have never really liked the idea of clerics wearing armor. I always found that more of a Templar/Paladin/Knight thing, which we kinda already have minus the magic.
For the record, that IS what a Cleric is, in D&D. A Knight Templar/Hospitaller, at least according to the old AD&D 2e players handbook I still have. Crusaders of their God(s) defending their flock by going out and adventuring and smiting evil. The later creation of Paladins (They were added in 1e, I THINK?) muddied the water, which is why they're confusing in AD&D 2e.
Clerics to me have always been robed monks and priests, who maybe at best are armed with a war mace or such, but never been full on "warriors".
That's a priest, not a 'cleric' by modern gamer lexicon (At least in the West, across The Pond). Which ironically, D&D never made as a type of 'NPC'. They always made them the armour wearing knights. Or they there were just people who worshipped but had no Divine casting ability.
As for the restriction, i think it is a bit of both. It is something that to my understanding (I have not played any of the older editions) have always been part of the game, but i kinda like the idea that if you wanna use magic, you can not use iron equipment, both as a nerf but also as a narrative thing (i recon it takes inspiration from cold iron).

Something i would prefer over having an "Cleric class" specifically would be something that could be more universally applied to "religious fantasy archetypes". Like perhaps "Acolyte", which could be applied to such positions such as priests and clergymen, cultists (be the thing they worship or not, you can be a cultist without being evil), druids or shamans etc. It might not start magical but i found fun the idea fun to play.
The issue to making 'clerics' I have is the way that Animism is described, it's very witch or herbalist druid, rather than a form of actual holy worship. But that's NOT a problem. I'm fine with healers being more woodsy, and having actual Priests with Magic Power, especially high up in a local religious establishment having two Magic power sets, depending on their object of worship.

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