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Arioch1973
Posts: 61
Joined: Tue 30 Aug 2022, 16:45

Re: Dragonbane BETA v2 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 7 Bestiary

Sat 07 Jan 2023, 22:46

Monster and NPC attributes.
I think that both monsters and npcs should be given at least attributes (STR,CON,AGL,INT, WIL, CHA). Simply because there might be situations where a player character has to make an opposed roll against them. For example, imagine a dwarf fighter challenging a minotaur to armwrestling (insane, but can happen). The player character rolls against his Strength. And the minotaur rolls against ????. Ah, no values. I guess he loses.
 
Von Ether
Posts: 104
Joined: Wed 31 Aug 2022, 16:09

Re: Dragonbane BETA v2 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 7 Bestiary

Sun 08 Jan 2023, 01:52

Monster attributes:

I am open to expanding that monsters have one or two blanket "attributes" for corner cases, just as they do with Parry or Dodge.
 
Arioch1973
Posts: 61
Joined: Tue 30 Aug 2022, 16:45

Re: Dragonbane BETA v2 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 7 Bestiary

Sun 08 Jan 2023, 14:30

Please give us attributes for NPCs and Monsters. It is really needed when the player characters interact with them in any other way than hitting them. As it is now, I guess all NPCs and Monsters lose any opposed rolls because they have no value to roll against.
 
Faråtzonen
Posts: 388
Joined: Tue 08 Mar 2016, 18:36

Re: Dragonbane BETA v2 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 7 Bestiary

Mon 09 Jan 2023, 05:34

Monster and NPC attributes.
I think that both monsters and npcs should be given at least attributes (STR,CON,AGL,INT, WIL, CHA). Simply because there might be situations where a player character has to make an opposed roll against them. For example, imagine a dwarf fighter challenging a minotaur to armwrestling (insane, but can happen). The player character rolls against his Strength. And the minotaur rolls against ????. Ah, no values. I guess he loses.

I definitely agree. Also the system of penalty/bonus die isn't enough to handle situation like the situation mentioned either. This is because a character that already has a penalty die (and cannot get a bonus die to cancel the penalty die out) will have equal possibility to get loose from a dragoons bite as from a dogs bite. Then it doesn't matter that the game master gives the character a penalty die to get loose from the dragons bite but not from getting loose from the dogs bite. Penalty dice doesn't stack (1 penalty die + 1 penalty die = 1 penalty die, not 2 penalty dice) therefore a character that already has one penalty die has the same probability to get away from a dragons bite as from a dogs bite. But it the dog and the dragon both had values in STR the game master could call for opposed roll between the character and the dragon (or dog). Then it would be much harder to get loose of a dragons bite than a dogs bite. My example is not taken out of the blue. A similar situation may occur in one of the scenarios that comes with the box.
 
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Short Fey
Posts: 398
Joined: Sat 03 Dec 2022, 14:45

Re: Dragonbane BETA v2 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 7 Bestiary

Mon 09 Jan 2023, 15:59

I understand that space would be an issue, but i think a lot of the monsters in the adventure book could be added to the beastiary. Likewise, i think that the beastiary should either be it's own small book, or at least switch places with the journey chapter. As is, it's easy for players to peek at the monsters, and the fact that after it is journeys which holds important rules for travel makes it inconvinient if the gm wanna keep those things hidden (the information on monster rules could be moved to the combat chapter)
Beware the fey!
 
Von Ether
Posts: 104
Joined: Wed 31 Aug 2022, 16:09

Re: Dragonbane BETA v2 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 7 Bestiary

Tue 10 Jan 2023, 07:28

Monster and NPC attributes.
I think that both monsters and npcs should be given at least attributes (STR,CON,AGL,INT, WIL, CHA). Simply because there might be situations where a player character has to make an opposed roll against them. For example, imagine a dwarf fighter challenging a minotaur to armwrestling (insane, but can happen). The player character rolls against his Strength. And the minotaur rolls against ????. Ah, no values. I guess he loses.

I definitely agree. Also the system of penalty/bonus die isn't enough to handle situation like the situation mentioned either. This is because a character that already has a penalty die (and cannot get a bonus die to cancel the penalty die out) will have equal possibility to get loose from a dragoons bite as from a dogs bite. Then it doesn't matter that the game master gives the character a penalty die to get loose from the dragons bite but not from getting loose from the dogs bite. Penalty dice doesn't stack (1 penalty die + 1 penalty die = 1 penalty die, not 2 penalty dice) therefore a character that already has one penalty die has the same probability to get away from a dragons bite as from a dogs bite. But it the dog and the dragon both had values in STR the game master could call for opposed roll between the character and the dragon (or dog). Then it would be much harder to get loose of a dragons bite than a dogs bite. My example is not taken out of the blue. A similar situation may occur in one of the scenarios that comes with the box.
I understand your argument, but the example doesn't work. The dragon uses one of its six auto-attacks, none of which are a grappling bite. The White Worm's Constrict attack offers rules for fighting against a constricting attack, which is a STR with a bane.

Meanwhile the dog has a Bite Skill of 12, thus provides a number for an opposed roll. But more likely, I'd just do a Strength check without a bane.

So what I am beginning to hear more is "As a GM, I want guidance on how to handle corner cases with opposed rolls and my first thought is more attributes or more granular bonuses."
 
Arioch1973
Posts: 61
Joined: Tue 30 Aug 2022, 16:45

Re: Dragonbane BETA v2 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 7 Bestiary

Tue 10 Jan 2023, 14:55

I do not think that attributes are for corner cases. I mean, they are the foundation on which player characters are built. So why would you not have them for NPCs and monsters? They seem pretty much essential to the system. I like consistency in the rules, and this is one part that I feel is a must be. To be honest, I dont care how the other systems FL have put out works. I care about seeing DB/DoD be true to its roots. That means it is a skill based system, and the skills are based on attributes. It should go the same for NPCs, Monsters, and Player Characters. Otherwise you might as well dispense with the rules, and just make stuff up. Which rarely are fair to the players if the GM decides things without applying rules to keep it fair.
Further as a GM, it makes it a lot easier to prepare npcs and monster when I have attributes to describe its various aspects, which then can be used as a basis for applying the rules.
 
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Short Fey
Posts: 398
Joined: Sat 03 Dec 2022, 14:45

Re: Dragonbane BETA v2 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 7 Bestiary

Tue 10 Jan 2023, 15:26

I do not think that attributes are for corner cases. I mean, they are the foundation on which player characters are built. So why would you not have them for NPCs and monsters? They seem pretty much essential to the system. I like consistency in the rules, and this is one part that I feel is a must be. To be honest, I dont care how the other systems FL have put out works. I care about seeing DB/DoD be true to its roots. That means it is a skill based system, and the skills are based on attributes. It should go the same for NPCs, Monsters, and Player Characters. Otherwise you might as well dispense with the rules, and just make stuff up. Which rarely are fair to the players if the GM decides things without applying rules to keep it fair.
Further as a GM, it makes it a lot easier to prepare npcs and monster when I have attributes to describe its various aspects, which then can be used as a basis for applying the rules.
I'm 50/50 on this. On one hand i agree that as is, npc's and monsters not having something to use for when the rules speciffically calls for it can be frustraiting. But i dissagree that they speciffically MUST have them. Just because something sticks too it's roots dos'nt automatically make it good, and being a GM myself, i have on occasion when making npcs skipped certain stats and attributes if i deem it unnecessary, sense there can be other ways of presenting a trait of a character without writing it down.

Now if Free League gives them attributes i won't make a fuss, but it is quite clear from the rules that npcs and monsters are meant to make as few dice rolls as possible (as preveiously stated as an example, if a dog bites you, you could just have the player make a STR check), so there are other ways of resolving this without attributes.
Beware the fey!
 
Chekmx
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue 31 Aug 2021, 17:13

Re: Dragonbane BETA v2 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 7 Bestiary

Tue 10 Jan 2023, 18:41

I would like to advocate for not giving monsters Attributes. For me one of the main strengths of this system is that the players have fully fleshed PC with Stats, skills and attributes that allow the players interesting character progression choices whilst NPC and Monsters are kept as stripped down as possible to minimize the burden on the GM.
 
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Gaddeborg
Posts: 256
Joined: Tue 18 Feb 2014, 17:40

Re: Dragonbane BETA v2 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 7 Bestiary

Tue 10 Jan 2023, 19:06

I would like to advocate for not giving monsters Attributes. For me one of the main strengths of this system is that the players have fully fleshed PC with Stats, skills and attributes that allow the players interesting character progression choices whilst NPC and Monsters are kept as stripped down as possible to minimize the burden on the GM.
+1
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