invader280
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Joined: Fri 13 Jan 2023, 08:35

Re: Dragonbane BETA v2 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 5 Magic

Fri 13 Jan 2023, 08:43

Is it just me or does the spell Permanence combined with low to mid level Mentalism spells seem really powerful? Sure most of this is going to be later in the game but making Power Fist, Stone Skin, Longstrider, Enchant Weapon, and Flight become permanent spells makes a Mentalist mage seem extremely strong late game. Once they they invest a couple Shifts in making those spells permanent on their bodies and weapons they become extremely tough in my eyes. I read it almost like a DnD monk class of sorts but going beyond that. I’m guessing the cost and time of investing in all the spells will probably help mitigate most of it.

Additionally, how does Enchant Weapon work on an iron or steel sword? Wouldn’t that negate the progress of casting the spell?
 
Arioch1973
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Re: Dragonbane BETA v2 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 5 Magic

Fri 13 Jan 2023, 15:12

An enchanted weapon must be made out of another material than iron. And yes, the spells are extremely powerful. In previous editions of the game this was balanced by the fact that it cost you 1 attribute point permanently when you performed the Permanence ritual. I see no such costs in this version. But remember also that a spell activated with magic seal uses WP from the person activating the magic in the item. Take also into account that they are high ranking spells, so a newly created mage wont be doing much of anything with them. Later in the game they are powerful though. You can also only bind spells with Magic Seal to inanimate objects, so no binding it to their bodies, only their equipment. And equipment can "disappear" :D
 
invader280
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Joined: Fri 13 Jan 2023, 08:35

Re: Dragonbane BETA v2 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 5 Magic

Fri 13 Jan 2023, 20:08

Here's the thing, Permanence doesn't require Magic Seal and Magic Seal doesn't require Permanence. A Mentalist basically makes high level armor a moot point for an entire high level party. Given enough time they can stack every single duration defensive (and some offensive) spell in the game on a person. I love the idea of Permanence but I think it needs a restriction. Right now, a decked out Knight, Fighter, or Artisan couldn't have a protection spell cast on them due to most likely wearing and carrying a ton of metal. A high level Mentalist can forgo the need for metal armor with Stone Skin (and maybe weapons with Enchanted Weapon). Given a week or so of downtime, they can make the ENTIRE PARTY as heavily armored as with Plate Mail. This then allows for Protection to be cast on them as well. I really think Permanence should be more limited, perhaps only allowing one permanent spell per object or person.
 
Arioch1973
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Re: Dragonbane BETA v2 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 5 Magic

Fri 13 Jan 2023, 20:23

I dont think it should be limited in how many spells it can make permanent, because that takes away some of the fun in how you can build magical items with the system. But it do _require_ a cost of some kind, like in previous editions, so that you think very carefully what you want to do because it is going to cost you something permanent (in earlier edition it cost you the equivalent of 1 point of WIL, reducing it by 1 permanently).
 
invader280
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Joined: Fri 13 Jan 2023, 08:35

Re: Dragonbane BETA v2 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 5 Magic

Sat 14 Jan 2023, 00:37

I dont think it should be limited in how many spells it can make permanent, because that takes away some of the fun in how you can build magical items with the system. But it do _require_ a cost of some kind, like in previous editions, so that you think very carefully what you want to do because it is going to cost you something permanent (in earlier edition it cost you the equivalent of 1 point of WIL, reducing it by 1 permanently).
I think the cost idea is a good. Maybe get it back if the spell is ever dispelled?
 
zcthu3
Posts: 121
Joined: Wed 29 May 2019, 10:34

Re: Dragonbane BETA v2 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 5 Magic

Sat 14 Jan 2023, 00:46

I dont think it should be limited in how many spells it can make permanent, because that takes away some of the fun in how you can build magical items with the system. But it do _require_ a cost of some kind, like in previous editions, so that you think very carefully what you want to do because it is going to cost you something permanent (in earlier edition it cost you the equivalent of 1 point of WIL, reducing it by 1 permanently).
I think the cost idea is a good. Maybe get it back if the spell is ever dispelled?
I agree, there should be a permanent cost to magical items.
 
Lindstrom
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed 13 Apr 2011, 17:00

Re: Dragonbane BETA v2 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 5 Magic

Sat 14 Jan 2023, 02:18

I dont think it should be limited in how many spells it can make permanent, because that takes away some of the fun in how you can build magical items with the system. But it do _require_ a cost of some kind, like in previous editions, so that you think very carefully what you want to do because it is going to cost you something permanent (in earlier edition it cost you the equivalent of 1 point of WIL, reducing it by 1 permanently).
I think the cost idea is a good. Maybe get it back if the spell is ever dispelled?
I agree, there should be a permanent cost to magical items.
In the previous edition of the Beta the cost of casting Permanens was reducing WIL by one permanent. I might have pointed out (along with other things like that it was a very mighty spell and so on) that the cost might be high because you can not increase your WIL which is something that you could do in the old 80-90s versions of the game.
 
zcthu3
Posts: 121
Joined: Wed 29 May 2019, 10:34

Re: Dragonbane BETA v2 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 5 Magic

Sat 14 Jan 2023, 02:25



I think the cost idea is a good. Maybe get it back if the spell is ever dispelled?
I agree, there should be a permanent cost to magical items.
In the previous edition of the Beta the cost of casting Permanens was reducing WIL by one permanent. I might have pointed out (along with other things like that it was a very mighty spell and so on) that the cost might be high because you can not increase your WIL which is something that you could do in the old 80-90s versions of the game.
Could be able to be tied into the Advancement system somehow e.g. a PC would have to sacrifice a certain number of Advancement Points to make a permanent magical item (maybe based on the tier and magnitude of the spell?). Not sure how many but might be more palatable then a permanent WP expenditure,
 
Banquo
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Joined: Wed 31 Aug 2022, 10:35

Re: Dragonbane BETA v2 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 5 Magic

Sat 14 Jan 2023, 10:51

Just an idea but I wonder if casting Permanence should permanently cost the WP used? I.e. the mage cannot recover the WP through rest A mage can gain more WP through the heroic trait Focused but the loss of available WP for some time would seem a suitable cost (and sort of fits in that you are making something permanent the ‘investment’ is also permanent)
 
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Fenhorn
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Re: Dragonbane BETA v2 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 5 Magic

Sat 14 Jan 2023, 11:05

The original Permanence spell (from the 80s game) only worked to change a Magic Seal so it becomes permanent. I think such a change will be enough.
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