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Banquo
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed 31 Aug 2022, 10:35

Re: Dragonbane BETA v2 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 5 Magic

Sat 14 Jan 2023, 11:10

The original Permanence spell (from the 80s game) only worked to change a Magic Seal so it becomes permanent. I think such a change will be enough.
I didn’t know that was the original but I completely agree with this
 
invader280
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri 13 Jan 2023, 08:35

Re: Dragonbane BETA v2 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 5 Magic

Sat 14 Jan 2023, 17:48

The original Permanence spell (from the 80s game) only worked to change a Magic Seal so it becomes permanent. I think such a change will be enough.
I think that’s a great idea. It makes it item based and allows for it to be an extended but limited resource but expands the player’s capabilities.
 
zcthu3
Posts: 121
Joined: Wed 29 May 2019, 10:34

Re: Dragonbane BETA v2 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 5 Magic

Sat 14 Jan 2023, 18:51

Just an idea but I wonder if casting Permanence should permanently cost the WP used? I.e. the mage cannot recover the WP through rest A mage can gain more WP through the heroic trait Focused but the loss of available WP for some time would seem a suitable cost (and sort of fits in that you are making something permanent the ‘investment’ is also permanent)
That’s a good point.
 
Banquo
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed 31 Aug 2022, 10:35

Re: Dragonbane BETA v2 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 5 Magic

Sat 14 Jan 2023, 19:28

Resurrection, does this seem a bit “easy” to anyone else. Yes the resurrected character loses Cha (to min of 3 so at that level there is no extra cost) but if a mage knows the spell it only costs 6 WP to bring back a corpse a week dead and the mage can possibly recover this in only a stretch rest (and only 2 WP if in the same shift, so a mage can resurrect multiple characters killed in a fight immediately then take a breather for a stretch before being able to do the same again or if more people need bringing back from the dead!). I know there is alway a risk casting spells, but was wondering if there should be some limit apart from the current Cha loss? Perhaps the WP cost is permanent or something, just some way to include some limit beyond getting a min Cha score.
(Edit: random thought- could resurrections be limited to 3 in line with the death saves? Maybe bit too “computer game” however)
 
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Short Fey
Posts: 398
Joined: Sat 03 Dec 2022, 14:45

Re: Dragonbane BETA v2 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 5 Magic

Sat 14 Jan 2023, 22:05

Resurrection, does this seem a bit “easy” to anyone else. Yes the resurrected character loses Cha (to min of 3 so at that level there is no extra cost) but if a mage knows the spell it only costs 6 WP to bring back a corpse a week dead and the mage can possibly recover this in only a stretch rest (and only 2 WP if in the same shift, so a mage can resurrect multiple characters killed in a fight immediately then take a breather for a stretch before being able to do the same again or if more people need bringing back from the dead!). I know there is alway a risk casting spells, but was wondering if there should be some limit apart from the current Cha loss? Perhaps the WP cost is permanent or something, just some way to include some limit beyond getting a min Cha score.
(Edit: random thought- could resurrections be limited to 3 in line with the death saves? Maybe bit too “computer game” however)
A limit could work, but i could see that perhaps instead of charisma, it needs to be a reduction that HURTS.

I could see two options for that.
A: The targeted characters highest attribute is reduced by 2 (If there is a tie in attributes, the dm picks one). This makes being resurrected possible, but at a much higher cost.
B: A softer version, but still a bit harsh, instead of attributes, the targeted characters Maximum HP AND WP is reduced by 2 (CON and WILL remains the same, just your hp & wp). This means that if you stay alive long enough, you could potentially increase them back up again with Robust and focused. But that is a slow process, and each resurrection will make you that much easier to kill again.

The targeted player may also choose if they wish to be resurrected or remain dead as well.

But if i may be honest, while i do not deny that the spell as is might be a bit generous as is, it is worth considering it is restricted to a specific school of magic, at rank three, so the players are likely (unless they have a very friendly gm) not gonna get their hands on it quickly, so making the penalty TOO harsh might be going overboard as well. Some players may want to have a chance of having their character saved, so i think it should be fair to have it possible to do so.
Beware the fey!
 
Lindstrom
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed 13 Apr 2011, 17:00

Re: Dragonbane BETA v2 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 5 Magic

Sun 15 Jan 2023, 14:46

Just an idea but I wonder if casting Permanence should permanently cost the WP used? I.e. the mage cannot recover the WP through rest A mage can gain more WP through the heroic trait Focused but the loss of available WP for some time would seem a suitable cost (and sort of fits in that you are making something permanent the ‘investment’ is also permanent)
I think this sounds really good maybe it could cost the full 2 WP of the ability. Magic could always be disspelled but that risk might be worth the full advancement. Maybe you could do the full Sauron thing and have the magician have one less WIL if he do not posses the magic item he has created.
 
Arioch1973
Posts: 61
Joined: Tue 30 Aug 2022, 16:45

Re: Dragonbane BETA v2 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 5 Magic

Sun 15 Jan 2023, 18:16

Or maybe permanence requires some rather extreme ingredients, like a dragons tooth, a snowflake captured at a volcano, or something equally insane and dangerous. That way you have it generating opportunity for adventure in order to make magical items.
 
Banquo
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed 31 Aug 2022, 10:35

Re: Dragonbane BETA v2 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 5 Magic

Sun 15 Jan 2023, 22:17

Resurrection, does this seem a bit “easy” to anyone else. Yes the resurrected character loses Cha (to min of 3 so at that level there is no extra cost) but if a mage knows the spell it only costs 6 WP to bring back a corpse a week dead and the mage can possibly recover this in only a stretch rest (and only 2 WP if in the same shift, so a mage can resurrect multiple characters killed in a fight immediately then take a breather for a stretch before being able to do the same again or if more people need bringing back from the dead!). I know there is alway a risk casting spells, but was wondering if there should be some limit apart from the current Cha loss? Perhaps the WP cost is permanent or something, just some way to include some limit beyond getting a min Cha score.
(Edit: random thought- could resurrections be limited to 3 in line with the death saves? Maybe bit too “computer game” however)
Thinking further on resurrection I was wondering if the Tim periods could be shifted back, so same stretch requires power level 1, within a shift requires power level 2, and within a day requires power level 3. This would limit it to being a more ‘immediate’ spell and I think limits it more reasonably.
 
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Gaddeborg
Posts: 256
Joined: Tue 18 Feb 2014, 17:40

Re: Dragonbane BETA v2 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 5 Magic

Mon 16 Jan 2023, 01:20

I always houserule away resurrection spells in my games (which is easy enough, so no biggie if one is included in the rules).

The main reason is that resurrection spells seriuosly interferes with adventure design:

DM: When you break up the door, you see the prince lying murdered in his own blood. There are no passages into the room but the one you came from, barricaded from the inside. You might be experienced adventurers, but how do you deal with… The Murder in the Closed Room?! (bwahahahaha)
Player: I resurrect the prince and ask him who did it.
GM: (gah!) *franticly reads the rules* “Eh… He does not want to be resurrected…”
Players: What!? His son was likely killed by the same murderer! Why would he…
etc etc

Another reason is the priorities of the adventurers:

GM: Alas, your dear friend Ben lies dead in front of you, but the lich king awaits further into the dungeon…
Players: Ok, so we grab Ben and turn around. That big city we passed four days ago with the thousand temples, there must be a priest there that knows resurrection.
GM: (gah! my adventure!) “You are certain that no one there knows it, and it would cost a fortune of gold…”
Players: “How much? I bet that castle with the nice noble we passed could have a lot of loot. It’s Ben we are talking about. If not, we could kidnap a priest and force him to do it”
etc etc

A third is the ethical choice as a player if you actually know the spell:

Player of good animist: “I’m not ok with just leaving all these slayed peasants here and pursue the evil demon priest and his army. We must stay here. I could start with resurrecting the youngest and work my way up until a week has passed. These peasants are sentient beings just like us and deserve life if I can give it to them. One week, then we can continue".
 
Arioch1973
Posts: 61
Joined: Tue 30 Aug 2022, 16:45

Re: Dragonbane BETA v2 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 5 Magic

Mon 16 Jan 2023, 06:21

Gaddeborg: I agree with you completely. A resurrection spell cheapens the impact of danger and possible death, as well as interfere with any adventure design that is beyond fighting monsters in a dungeon.
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