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Short Fey
Posts: 398
Joined: Sat 03 Dec 2022, 14:45

Re: Dragonbane BETA v2 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 3 Skills

Fri 06 Jan 2023, 12:56

Now there should still be a mechanic to make a situation harder, and i would for that pitch this: Challenge rolls.

The core idea is when you do something that would pose a challenge, the gm can declair it a challenging roll. This gives the player a skill level penalty for the roll, reducing it by a certain amount of levels depending on the challenge. These should be fixed values, so the player knows exactly how much to reduce (the following are just examples, values could be different)

Lesser challenge -3 (-15% chance of success)
Greater challenge -5 (-25%)
Imposing challenge -7(-35%).
I agree with your opinion on Opposed Rolls, but please, no penalties! Dragonbane made a good decision to cut modifiers completely and to just use boons and banes. If you are starting as you suggested, it won't take long until the first person demands a table for ranged combat modifiers. ;) If you do something that would pose a challenge, you get a bane or two. Done.
Fair, but in the long run i think there needs to be something more than just banes to impose a challenge. While you can "stack" banes to make it harder to nullify, it risks becoming "samey".

While i disslike opposed rolls as written, it at least makes some vararity, and you can crank up the difficulty (an opposed roll and a bane are bad. A opposed roll WITH a bane is a rare "oh shit" moment, but makes it all the more cool if you defy the odds and succeed)
Beware the fey!
 
Tancred
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat 18 Jun 2022, 13:21

Re: Dragonbane BETA v2 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 3 Skills

Fri 06 Jan 2023, 13:26

Now there should still be a mechanic to make a situation harder, and i would for that pitch this: Challenge rolls.

The core idea is when you do something that would pose a challenge, the gm can declair it a challenging roll. This gives the player a skill level penalty for the roll, reducing it by a certain amount of levels depending on the challenge. These should be fixed values, so the player knows exactly how much to reduce (the following are just examples, values could be different)

Lesser challenge -3 (-15% chance of success)
Greater challenge -5 (-25%)
Imposing challenge -7(-35%).
I agree with your opinion on Opposed Rolls, but please, no penalties! Dragonbane made a good decision to cut modifiers completely and to just use boons and banes. If you are starting as you suggested, it won't take long until the first person demands a table for ranged combat modifiers. ;) If you do something that would pose a challenge, you get a bane or two. Done.
Yeah I agree. If you were to do away with opposed rolls but needed some guide as to how many banes to impose you could compare skills and if the passive side has a >5 point advantage (eg. Sneak of 5 versus a guard with Awareness of 11) that's one bane and if >10 points (guard's Awareness is 16), 2 banes. You could also do the reverse and give a boon if the active character's skill is >5 over the sentry.
 
JohnWithAgun
Posts: 134
Joined: Sat 18 Jun 2022, 14:27

Re: Dragonbane BETA v2 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 3 Skills

Mon 09 Jan 2023, 09:44

i really like the idea of challenging roles, or another mechanic for keeping the challenge up late game / for those above and beyond actions.
Made a post about it in the GM section but didn't see much discussion :(

Now i don't think there should be any rule on how and when to apply. Just a simple optional rule box with "if the action is difficult the gm may use this table" will do the trick.

edit:
I do think adding to the roll is simpler than subtracting from the skill however :) fits more with the quick and easy result vs skill.
This is a challenge roll, add a flat 5(or maybe with a die system: a D6) to the roll result.
 
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Short Fey
Posts: 398
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Re: Dragonbane BETA v2 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 3 Skills

Wed 11 Jan 2023, 19:35

Some Heroic Ability Feedback.

IRON FIST: I think the fact you gotta pay 1wp for each time you attack a bit stingy. If i wanna make a character that focuses on unarmed attacks this feels really restrictive. I would say that either:
A: You pay 2wp, but the effect lasts for 1 stretch or one minuet (6 rounds). It lets you be "empowered" without it lasting too long.
B: No WP cost, but your unarmed attack becomes a d8, which is more comparable to weapons such as daggers or staves.

TWIN SHOT: I decided to test this ability with a skill level of 12 and rolled 30 times, at which i succeeded only 8. I think forcing a bane to use this ability is a bit strict. Perhaps it can have some other restrictions such as the second arrow must hit another target within Xm of your first target, and/or you can not target things that are obscured.

LONEWOLF: I think this could do with a buff compared to Quatermaster. Perhaps that if you camp this way, no one can find you while you rest, and you can rest without interruption. You can there for be "selfish" and rest without issue.

DISGUISE: I think instead of letting the other character roll an AWARENESS check the moment they see you, your character instead rolls a BLUFFING check when you do something that the other character would deem out of character for the person you are impersonating. With a bane if it is outrageously out of character.
Beware the fey!
 
JohnWithAgun
Posts: 134
Joined: Sat 18 Jun 2022, 14:27

Re: Dragonbane BETA v2 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 3 Skills

Thu 12 Jan 2023, 09:30

Some Heroic Ability Feedback.

IRON FIST: I think the fact you gotta pay 1wp for each time you attack a bit stingy. If i wanna make a character that focuses on unarmed attacks this feels really restrictive. I would say that either:
A: You pay 2wp, but the effect lasts for 1 stretch or one minuet (6 rounds). It lets you be "empowered" without it lasting too long.
B: No WP cost, but your unarmed attack becomes a d8, which is more comparable to weapons such as daggers or staves.

TWIN SHOT: I decided to test this ability with a skill level of 12 and rolled 30 times, at which i succeeded only 8. I think forcing a bane to use this ability is a bit strict. Perhaps it can have some other restrictions such as the second arrow must hit another target within Xm of your first target, and/or you can not target things that are obscured.

LONEWOLF: I think this could do with a buff compared to Quatermaster. Perhaps that if you camp this way, no one can find you while you rest, and you can rest without interruption. You can there for be "selfish" and rest without issue.

DISGUISE: I think instead of letting the other character roll an AWARENESS check the moment they see you, your character instead rolls a BLUFFING check when you do something that the other character would deem out of character for the person you are impersonating. With a bane if it is outrageously out of character.
Iron Fist:
Be very careful messing with unarmed strikes unless they changed the power fist spell (see my monk build https://forum.frialigan.se/viewtopic.php?t=10437, it gets disgusting fast)

Twin shot:
Maybe you should do the testing again with a much higher skill(15 and 18 maybe), i would rather the game be balanced around mid and late game than early.
edit: it is harsh compared to say double slash or massive blow (but the single target damage potential from twin shot is a lot higher) you could split it into two separate heroics that are just copies of the melee counterparts maybe.

Lone wolf:
agree, quartermaster is just straight up better. (plus really annoying as a game master. I guess it dont matter where you are, if you have a spare WP its super easy, handle an inconvenience).

Disguise:
Yeah this one needs more text overall. Preferably a table with what sort of actions vs what rolls. As now it reads like dressing up as a random henchman and walking through the gate is the same as dressing up as someone husband/wife or brother and fooling them.
 
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Short Fey
Posts: 398
Joined: Sat 03 Dec 2022, 14:45

Re: Dragonbane BETA v2 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 3 Skills

Thu 12 Jan 2023, 10:41

Iron Fist:
Be very careful messing with unarmed strikes unless they changed the power fist spell (see my monk build https://forum.frialigan.se/viewtopic.php?t=10437, it gets disgusting fast)

Twin shot:
Maybe you should do the testing again with a much higher skill(15 and 18 maybe), i would rather the game be balanced around mid and late game than early.
edit: it is harsh compared to say double slash or massive blow (but the single target damage potential from twin shot is a lot higher) you could split it into two separate heroics that are just copies of the melee counterparts maybe.
Fair point with power fist, my issue is more if i wanna make a non magic tavern brawler having to pay wp everytime you wanna deal damage feels underwhealming.

I also did try using Twin shot with a skill level of 14, at which i only missed 8 times. But i feel that is my issue. Either you rarely hit at all, or rarely miss at all with little to no middleground. And it's all or nothing, either hit both or hit nothing. Double Slash at least limits your wepon choices and requires you to be next to two enemies, while duel wield takes up both hands, can't wield 2h weapons and you get to do a normal attack first.

This means Twin Shots only real limitation is that you have to use a bow, but with the limited number of ranged weapons this is less of an issue, sense once your bows skill is high enough you can spam arrows with little impunity from a safe distance. You could say that duel wield has the same issue, but then at least you must be in the thick of the fight and be at risk.

Giving it another ristriction than a bane makes it more useful if your skill level is low but makes it a little harder to use once it is higher.
Beware the fey!
 
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Gaddeborg
Posts: 256
Joined: Tue 18 Feb 2014, 17:40

Re: Dragonbane BETA v2 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 3 Skills

Thu 12 Jan 2023, 10:55

We tried the Iron Fist-monk in our playtest, and he spent both combats trying to cast his spell for two rounds, finally resolving to kick the opponents without it (using the +1d6 heroic ability). It has not been op so far. All his wp were spent.
 
JohnWithAgun
Posts: 134
Joined: Sat 18 Jun 2022, 14:27

Re: Dragonbane BETA v2 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 3 Skills

Thu 12 Jan 2023, 11:25

We tried the Iron Fist-monk in our playtest, and he spent both combats trying to cast his spell for two rounds, finally resolving to kick the opponents without it (using the +1d6 heroic ability). It has not been op so far. All his wp were spent.
Avada Kedavra wouldn't be op if you failed your spell cast rolls either then :)

...(harry potter death spell for those that didnt get it)

edit: They did remove dodging from his starting skills which will reduce early game usefulness a lot
 
JohnWithAgun
Posts: 134
Joined: Sat 18 Jun 2022, 14:27

Re: Dragonbane BETA v2 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 3 Skills

Fri 13 Jan 2023, 09:43

page 37: Deflect arrow (heroic ability)
The name and description doesn't match. There is no mention of arrows specific in the text description, just ranged attacks.

Does this ability allow blocking thrown weapons, objects, bolts and spells with this too?
(Does it allow a weapon to work as a shield or is it a unique mechanic :) )
 
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Short Fey
Posts: 398
Joined: Sat 03 Dec 2022, 14:45

Re: Dragonbane BETA v2 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 3 Skills

Fri 13 Jan 2023, 10:16

page 37: Deflect arrow (heroic ability)
The name and description doesn't match. There is no mention of arrows specific in the text description, just ranged attacks.

Does this ability allow blocking thrown weapons, objects, bolts and spells with this too?
(Does it allow a weapon to work as a shield or is it a unique mechanic :) )
I think the name is meant to be simple and kind of "cool". "Deflect projectile" sounds a bit loose, while "Deflect Arrow" paints a clear picture in your head. That and arrows is what your probably going to be deflecting the most. Personally i don't mind the name but if it's changed i won't make a fuss.
Beware the fey!
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