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Nils
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Dragonbane BETA v2 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 2 Your Character

Thu 22 Dec 2022, 12:59

Hi!

Please use this thread to post feedback and report any typos or errors in chapter 2 of the BETA PDF of the Rulebook Dragonbane. Guidelines to remember:
  • Before reporting an error, please check and see if it already has been reported, and if so, don't report it again.
  • If you feedbacked on something in the the first version of the BETA but it's not changed in the version two of the BETA, it's not because we missed it - it's because we made a different assessment. (Typos are a different thing.)
  • Please report your feedback no later than January 31.
Thank you!
Fria Ligan
 
RobJN
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Re: Dragonbane BETA v2 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 2 Your Character

Thu 22 Dec 2022, 13:24

Effects of Age chart says PCs get 5+1*, 2*, or 3* trained skills: "* Five trained skills must be selected from your profession, the rest may be chosen freely."

However the text on page 25, second column, still reads "Four of your trained skills must be selected from those listed by your profession. The rest (one, two, or three depending on your age) are chosen freely."
 
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Tomas
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Re: Dragonbane BETA v2 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 2 Your Character

Thu 22 Dec 2022, 15:41

Effects of Age chart says PCs get 5+1*, 2*, or 3* trained skills: "* Five trained skills must be selected from your profession, the rest may be chosen freely."

However the text on page 25, second column, still reads "Four of your trained skills must be selected from those listed by your profession. The rest (one, two, or three depending on your age) are chosen freely."
Argh! I was so sure we had updated this everywhere. Thanks. Five trained skills (plus one, two or three depending on age) is correct.
Fria Ligan
 
tak5haka
Posts: 27
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Re: Dragonbane BETA v2 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 2 Your Character

Thu 22 Dec 2022, 16:27

The profession descriptions have a "Key Attribute" listed, but there is no other information about what this means when creating the character? Unless I am missing this information?
 
wylie
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Re: Dragonbane BETA v2 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 2 Your Character

Thu 22 Dec 2022, 17:15

on page 29, where it talks about gaining heroic abilities
the part about gaining a heroic ability if & when a skill becomes 18 sounds great.
on gaining an ability otherwise, I think it would be better to have it where its every 5 sessions or so, also besides the grand heroic deed or when an adventure grants it.
i understand it is about finding balance on when to reward heroic abilities, but i like to see it as something a player to look forward to surviving 5 sessions, even if they are having bad luck with the dice or just not chance to do something grand
 
Vatrachos
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Re: Dragonbane BETA v2 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 2 Your Character

Thu 22 Dec 2022, 18:56

I, for one, am REALLY glad to get away from the "every five sessions" thing! If a GM wants to use that as a milestone, fine. The rules allows for that. But for a longer campaign, where power creep is an issue, every five sessions would be a dealbreaker for me. As it is written now you MAY award it every five sessions. Or at the end of an adventure arc. Or when the characters do something heroic. I like that it's at the GM's discretion.
on page 29, where it talks about gaining heroic abilities
the part about gaining a heroic ability if & when a skill becomes 18 sounds great.
on gaining an ability otherwise, I think it would be better to have it where its every 5 sessions or so, also besides the grand heroic deed or when an adventure grants it.
i understand it is about finding balance on when to reward heroic abilities, but i like to see it as something a player to look forward to surviving 5 sessions, even if they are having bad luck with the dice or just not chance to do something grand
 
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jasales
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Re: Dragonbane BETA v2 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 2 Your Character

Thu 22 Dec 2022, 20:15

Advancement Marks: Every time you roll a dragon or
demon (page 31) when using a skill, you tick the check
box next to that skill. At the end of the game session the
GM asks you the following questions about the session
you just completed. For each question that you can reply
“yes” to, and justify your answer, you may place another
advancement mark next to a skill of your choice. The GM
has the final word, but should adopt a permissive attitude.
Ok, that makes sense.
You may only place one mark per skill, but you can
check the box of a skill that has already been marked by
dragon or demon rolls. In other words, a skill can have
multiple advancement marks.
What? This doesn't make any sense to me. I can't place more than one mark. I can place more than one mark. What? What? What?
 
zcthu3
Posts: 121
Joined: Wed 29 May 2019, 10:34

Re: Dragonbane BETA v2 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 2 Your Character

Thu 22 Dec 2022, 20:19

Two pieces of feedback:

Heroic Abilities
I prefer the new way of gaining Heroic Abilities to the ‘every 5 sessions’ but would still prefer if they were purchased with Advancement Points. Some of the Heroic Abilities don’t necessarily connect to the advancement of skills so having them as separate things that can be purchased separately makes more sense to me. Alternatively, while the ability for GMs to reward Heroic Abilities for heroic events assists somewhat, I’d like to see this widened to when the narrative says it makes sense (which is why I’d prefer an Advancement Point cost). I can see a player wanting their character to learn a particular ability and seeking out a teacher (which could be an adventure in-and-of itself). As written the rules prevent this.

EDIT: making Heroic Abilities based on Advancement Points (my gut feeling says 5 AP to learn a Heroic Ability but I’ve not play tested it) could also be integrated with the Training rules in the Experience section. Teachers can provide an Advancement Point per session of training towards a heroic ability but each session of training must be separated from another by an adventure. This enables Heroic Abilities to be learned through a combination of training and adventures.

Inability to learn magic later
I really dislike that magic is now permanently ‘locked’ behind the Mage profession. This makes Mage (uniquely) a specific class that must be taken at character creation if you ever want to use magic. While you could create an Artisan who wants to be a Knight, and who progresses towards it through play, you can’t create an Artisan who wants to be a Mage as they are locked out of ever learning the Magic Ability. There appears to be no mechanism (other than GM fiat) for PCs to learn magic after play begins as Magic is not a Heroic Ability. Professions are great as collections of starting skills and abilities, but one of the strengths of a primarily skill based (as opposed to class based) system is the ability for characters to change and learn new abilities that differ from what they started with. This is the case with every ability except magic. I’d like to suggest a lesser version of the Magic ability (Apprentice Magician?) which gives the ability to use a magic skill at the base level (i.e. not as a trained skill) and which can be advanced as normal. This makes it possible to pick up magic later, but not immediately at the full skill level of a Mage.
Last edited by zcthu3 on Thu 22 Dec 2022, 21:30, edited 2 times in total.
 
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jasales
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Re: Dragonbane BETA v2 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 2 Your Character

Thu 22 Dec 2022, 20:25

Inability to learn magic later
I really dislike that magic is now permanently ‘locked’ behind the Mage profession. This makes Mage (uniquely) a specific class that must be taken at character creation if you ever want to use magic. While you could create an Artisan who wants to be a Knight, and who progresses towards it through play, you can’t create an Artisan who wants to be a Mage as they are locked out of ever learning the Magic Ability. There appears to be no mechanism (other than GM fiat) for PCs to learn magic after play begins as Magic is not a Heroic Ability. Professions are great as collections of starting skills and abilities, but one of the strengths of a primarily skill based (as opposed to class based) system is the ability for characters to change and learn new abilities that differ from what they started with. This is the case with every ability except magic. I’d like to suggest a lesser version of the Magic ability (Apprentice Magician?) which gives the ability to use a magic skill at the base level (i.e. not as a trained skill) and which can be advanced as normal. This makes it possible to pick up magic later, but not immediately at the full skill level of a Mage.
I 100% agree. Are you suggesting a secondary skill? That kinda makes sense.

Or a heroic ability that grants access to one school of magic and only one school of magic with perhaps a will requirement would open things up a lot.
 
zcthu3
Posts: 121
Joined: Wed 29 May 2019, 10:34

Re: Dragonbane BETA v2 Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 2 Your Character

Thu 22 Dec 2022, 20:35

Inability to learn magic later
I really dislike that magic is now permanently ‘locked’ behind the Mage profession. This makes Mage (uniquely) a specific class that must be taken at character creation if you ever want to use magic. While you could create an Artisan who wants to be a Knight, and who progresses towards it through play, you can’t create an Artisan who wants to be a Mage as they are locked out of ever learning the Magic Ability. There appears to be no mechanism (other than GM fiat) for PCs to learn magic after play begins as Magic is not a Heroic Ability. Professions are great as collections of starting skills and abilities, but one of the strengths of a primarily skill based (as opposed to class based) system is the ability for characters to change and learn new abilities that differ from what they started with. This is the case with every ability except magic. I’d like to suggest a lesser version of the Magic ability (Apprentice Magician?) which gives the ability to use a magic skill at the base level (i.e. not as a trained skill) and which can be advanced as normal. This makes it possible to pick up magic later, but not immediately at the full skill level of a Mage.
I 100% agree. Are you suggesting a secondary skill? That kinda makes sense.

Or a heroic ability that grants access to one school of magic and only one school of magic with perhaps a will requirement would open things up a lot.
More the latter, although I don’t see why you couldn’t then pick up the other magic-requirement Heroic abilities later (given how rare they are). Basically something like:

Apprentice Magician
* Requirement: -
* Willpower Points: Varies by spell
You have managed to learn the basics of magic. You must select a school of magic – either Animism, Elementalism, or Mentalism – which then becomes a useable secondary skill, although you must develop it from its base level as normal (it does not start Trained). You may choose one rank 1 spell and three magic tricks. You can only choose spells from your school or from the general magic category. You also get a grimoire where all your spells are listed. For more on magic, see chapter 5
.

This version is similar to Archmage in that you only get the new magic skill at the Base Level. You could also just make it give the character the magic tricks and make them learn the rank 1 spell through advancement which would be in keeping with the feel of a character who is just starting to learn magic and be closer to Archmage in terms of what

Basically a Talent that allows characters to learn magic after character creation but (IMO) doesn’t undermine the Mage as a choice at character creation.
Last edited by zcthu3 on Thu 22 Dec 2022, 21:57, edited 1 time in total.
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