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Rathalos32
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Magic and Iron/Steel Rule Question

Wed 07 Dec 2022, 20:36

Hello, dear Fria Ligans forum users,

In our local group, we were having a "friendly" discussion about the rule of iron blocking the casting of magic, where the rules are as follows:
Iron has an anti-magical effect, which means that you cannot use magic while in direct contact with iron or steel, except for tiny items.
The form that is being written gave us confusion on what the intention of this rule was, and we were having doubts on how to proceed with it. Some of the questions were: If the caster is using gloves, does that negate "direct contact"? Could the same apply for chainmail on top of a gambeson? When using weapons with iron heads but with wooden shafts or  handles, such as axes and spears, do they count for the rule or not? Are items in the backpack, such as an iron lantern, taken into account? And what if it's around the waist? And if it's at the end of a stick that is around the waist?

So, there were a lot more questions, as this is kinda of ambiguous, and if anyone could clarify or has something else to add to the discussion (like more questions! kkkk) we would love to hear it!

Thank you, dear reader!
 
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Master Dio
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed 07 Dec 2022, 20:39

Re: Magic and Iron/Steel Rule Question

Wed 07 Dec 2022, 20:50

Hello, dear Fria Ligans forum users,

In our local group, we were having a "friendly" discussion about the rule of iron blocking the casting of magic, where the rules are as follows:
Iron has an anti-magical effect, which means that you cannot use magic while in direct contact with iron or steel, except for tiny items.
The form that is being written gave us confusion on what the intention of this rule was, and we were having doubts on how to proceed with it. Some of the questions were: If the caster is using gloves, does that negate "direct contact"? Could the same apply for chainmail on top of a gambeson? When using weapons with iron heads but with wooden shafts or  handles, such as axes and spears, do they count for the rule or not? Are items in the backpack, such as an iron lantern, taken into account? And what if it's around the waist? And if it's at the end of a stick that is around the waist?

So, there were a lot more questions, as this is kinda of ambiguous, and if anyone could clarify or has something else to add to the discussion (like more questions! kkkk) we would love to hear it!

Thank you, dear reader!

How difficult is it to write the rules more clearly?
Like this: "Magic users cannot use Weapons (Even Spears, Axes and other weapons with wooden parts), Armor and any Equipment that have iron or steel."
 
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CEBedford
Posts: 50
Joined: Thu 25 Jul 2019, 02:33

Re: Magic and Iron/Steel Rule Question

Wed 07 Dec 2022, 23:30

Hello, dear Fria Ligans forum users,

In our local group, we were having a "friendly" discussion about the rule of iron blocking the casting of magic, where the rules are as follows:
Iron has an anti-magical effect, which means that you cannot use magic while in direct contact with iron or steel, except for tiny items.
The form that is being written gave us confusion on what the intention of this rule was, and we were having doubts on how to proceed with it. Some of the questions were: If the caster is using gloves, does that negate "direct contact"? Could the same apply for chainmail on top of a gambeson? When using weapons with iron heads but with wooden shafts or  handles, such as axes and spears, do they count for the rule or not? Are items in the backpack, such as an iron lantern, taken into account? And what if it's around the waist? And if it's at the end of a stick that is around the waist?

So, there were a lot more questions, as this is kinda of ambiguous, and if anyone could clarify or has something else to add to the discussion (like more questions! kkkk) we would love to hear it!

Thank you, dear reader!

How difficult is it to write the rules more clearly?
Like this: "Magic users cannot use Weapons (Even Spears, Axes and other weapons with wooden parts), Armor and any Equipment that have iron or steel."
It’s also fair to ask players how hard it is to go by the spirit of the rule, which clearly implies they shouldn’t be trying to wield or wear iron items while utilizing magic. I’ve long ago stopped playing at tables where people feel the need to nitpick to circumvent a rule.

Players like that often know what they are doing.

This does need to be clearer in the book though for people who don’t have that luxury.
- Hoodie Infestation
 
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Master Dio
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed 07 Dec 2022, 20:39

Re: Magic and Iron/Steel Rule Question

Thu 08 Dec 2022, 03:38

Hello, dear Fria Ligans forum users,

In our local group, we were having a "friendly" discussion about the rule of iron blocking the casting of magic, where the rules are as follows:


The form that is being written gave us confusion on what the intention of this rule was, and we were having doubts on how to proceed with it. Some of the questions were: If the caster is using gloves, does that negate "direct contact"? Could the same apply for chainmail on top of a gambeson? When using weapons with iron heads but with wooden shafts or  handles, such as axes and spears, do they count for the rule or not? Are items in the backpack, such as an iron lantern, taken into account? And what if it's around the waist? And if it's at the end of a stick that is around the waist?

So, there were a lot more questions, as this is kinda of ambiguous, and if anyone could clarify or has something else to add to the discussion (like more questions! kkkk) we would love to hear it!

Thank you, dear reader!

How difficult is it to write the rules more clearly?
Like this: "Magic users cannot use Weapons (Even Spears, Axes and other weapons with wooden parts), Armor and any Equipment that have iron or steel."
It’s also fair to ask players how hard it is to go by the spirit of the rule, which clearly implies they shouldn’t be trying to wield or wear iron items while utilizing magic. I’ve long ago stopped playing at tables where people feel the need to nitpick to circumvent a rule.

Players like that often know what they are doing.

This does need to be clearer in the book though for people who don’t have that luxury.
My dear friend, demanding a better written text to leave no doubt is everyone's right. If you're content with the lack of objectivity in the system descriptions, I'm sorry. Forbidden Lands has a lot of these bugs and it greatly detracts from its quality. Get well.
 
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CEBedford
Posts: 50
Joined: Thu 25 Jul 2019, 02:33

Re: Magic and Iron/Steel Rule Question

Thu 08 Dec 2022, 05:15


It’s also fair to ask players how hard it is to go by the spirit of the rule, which clearly implies they shouldn’t be trying to wield or wear iron items while utilizing magic. I’ve long ago stopped playing at tables where people feel the need to nitpick to circumvent a rule.

Players like that often know what they are doing.

This does need to be clearer in the book though for people who don’t have that luxury.
My dear friend, demanding a better written text to leave no doubt is everyone's right. If you're content with the lack of objectivity in the system descriptions, I'm sorry. Forbidden Lands has a lot of these bugs and it greatly detracts from its quality. Get well.
Hey, don’t forget that I ultimately agreed with you at the end of my post. The rules should be clear as best they can.

I was just making a point about players who look for loopholes. They are often well aware that they are trying to nit pick the system rather than trying to have fun honoring the intent of the rules.

We should be able to agree on a reasonable interpretation but for some reason some gamers love arguing every little detail. I try to play with people who don’t do that is all.
- Hoodie Infestation
 
JohnWithAgun
Posts: 134
Joined: Sat 18 Jun 2022, 14:27

Re: Magic and Iron/Steel Rule Question

Thu 08 Dec 2022, 09:43

Plain text over fluff.
Just write plainly what the rules are and leave the fluff to the lore boxes :)

if you want both clearly separate them.
bla bla iron bla magic bla bla
(you cant use/carry iron items)
 
Runninghill
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu 08 Dec 2022, 10:50

Re: Magic and Iron/Steel Rule Question

Thu 08 Dec 2022, 10:59

It's about more than equipment. A floor made of iron would ground a magic user to not be able to cast magic. Direct contact is more about the distance to the magic user and not to the skin of the magic user. And the more iron there is in the nearby are, the more it disrupt the flow of magic.
 
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Fenhorn
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Re: Magic and Iron/Steel Rule Question

Thu 08 Dec 2022, 11:11

It's about more than equipment. A floor made of iron would ground a magic user to not be able to cast magic. Direct contact is more about the distance to the magic user and not to the skin of the magic user. And the more iron there is in the nearby are, the more it disrupt the flow of magic.
In one of the adventures from the 80s the adventurers eventually came to a place with iron floor, walls, etc. except for a podium in the center made of stone.This stopped the players from casting spells, but not the evil spellcasters standing on the stone podium. Poor players.
“Thanks for noticin' me.” - Eeyore
 
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Vile Traveller
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Re: Magic and Iron/Steel Rule Question

Thu 08 Dec 2022, 12:35

Min-maxers need to have fun, too. :ugeek:

I quite like a certain level ambiguity and interpretation in RPGs. It encourages creativity and deeper thinking about the rules.

Although I acknowledge the need for certainty when not playing with your regular crew, so I understand many referees prefer clarity over flexibility. Conventions and FLGs tables are not the best place for rules arguments.
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Narind
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon 26 Sep 2022, 12:47

Re: Magic and Iron/Steel Rule Question

Sat 10 Dec 2022, 01:56


How difficult is it to write the rules more clearly?
Like this: "Magic users cannot use Weapons (Even Spears, Axes and other weapons with wooden parts), Armor and any Equipment that have iron or steel."
Your suggested clarification is proof in itself that the rule definitely needs clarification, as this is not how it's intended.

Spellcasters can wield and use steel and iron objects, but they can't use magic when they do, nor can they use magic if they are in close proximity to iron or steel.

Maybe the text would be more clear if it read:
"Iron has an anti-magical effect, which means that you cannot use magic while in close proximity of iron or steel, (items listed as tiny are exempted from this rule)."

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