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Fenhorn
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Re: Magic and Iron/Steel Rule Question

Thu 12 Jan 2023, 23:02

The following is a hasty translation by me, more or less direct.

from DoD '84 and 87' (black box)
A mage can never cast a spell when he has physical contact with iron. The reason is not totally known, but some thinks that it has to do with the iron and magnetism. With iron means a metall that entirely or partly consists of iron or steel. A few grams is enough to stop the magic from working. Practically this means that the GM have to decide if a mage is affected by iron or not.
The results of this is that a mage can't cast spells in any form if he wears an armour of iron or is holding a weapon or tool that is made of iron. This doesn't mean that the mage can't use such items, just that he can't use his magic when he do.
Most mages tends to use non-metallic armours, like leather and use weapons made of wood, stone or bone, for example a mace, or staff or something like that. He can also use a bow, but the arrowheads needs to be made of stone which does two points less damage.

Some clarifications was made in:
DoD '91 (green box)
* A mage can't use spells if he is in a room with iron walls or if he sits in a cage of iron.
* A mage can cast spells if he carry iron items that doesn't weigh more than 0,5 kg, but he can't be in direct contact with it.

DoD '23
Iron has an anti-magical effect, which means that you cannot use magic while in direct contact with iron or steel, except for tiny items.
Conclusion (based on DoD '23 with hints from the earlier versions9
* A mage can wear leather armour.
* He can use weapons like mace (the head can be made by something other than iron or steel).
* He can be in direct contact with tiny iron or steel objects. This change from earlier versions means that the idiotic thing that some group did iron fillings doesn't work anymore (I remember the debate back then and we never allowed it).


edit: I should that of course a mage could decide to use a sword, but he should think about how his character will live and work, every day. It is easier to select a weapon that he can carry around without a problem, like a staff or a mace with a stone head or something. Then he doesn't have to sheathe the sword when he wants to cast a spell.
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invader280
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Re: Magic and Iron/Steel Rule Question

Fri 13 Jan 2023, 09:04

I’m curious how this affects the Enchanted Weapon spell. Does this limit the types of weapons you can enchant? Or do you just hand wave it and say the mage touched some non-metal portion of the iron/steel sword/hammer/axe?
 
JohnWithAgun
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Re: Magic and Iron/Steel Rule Question

Fri 13 Jan 2023, 10:01

How would getting struck/hit by an arrow work? Technically he is now very much in contact with metal.
Rule an arrowhead a tiny object i suppose?
But your generic evil necromancer would still be powerless once the brave hero run him through with his sword?

How does this generally effect spells all ready cast (buffs if you will)? Say your knight drops his greatsword/helmet crossing a bridge, can you cast flight and fly down and get it?
 
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Re: Magic and Iron/Steel Rule Question

Fri 13 Jan 2023, 11:13

But your generic evil necromancer would still be powerless once the brave hero run him through with his sword?
Considering he is dead or dying once run through with a sword, yeah, the necromancer would be pretty powerless. But you are a pretty awful necromancer if you get into close contact with fighters. :)
 
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Fenhorn
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Re: Magic and Iron/Steel Rule Question

Fri 13 Jan 2023, 11:13

How would getting struck/hit by an arrow work? Technically he is now very much in contact with metal.
Rule an arrowhead a tiny object i suppose?
One arrowhead is tiny, a quiver full of arrows aren't.
But your generic evil necromancer would still be powerless once the brave hero run him through with his sword?
The evil necromancer can still cast spells since the brave hero rarely leave his sword in the necromancer.
How does this generally effect spells all ready cast (buffs if you will)? Say your knight drops his greatsword/helmet crossing a bridge, can you cast flight and fly down and get it?
The spell has already been cast (the iron/steel rule is written under 'Casting Spells').
I’m curious how this affects the Enchanted Weapon spell. Does this limit the types of weapons you can enchant? Or do you just hand wave it and say the mage touched some non-metal portion of the iron/steel sword/hammer/axe?
I would go with that as long as the mage doesn't hold the weapon during spellcasting and only touches it at the end, it is ok.
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MacDhomnuill
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Re: Magic and Iron/Steel Rule Question

Fri 13 Jan 2023, 19:12

every one demanding more language on this is why games are so damn complicated now. Just house rule it.
 
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Fenhorn
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Re: Magic and Iron/Steel Rule Question

Fri 13 Jan 2023, 19:30

every one demanding more language on this is why games are so damn complicated now. Just house rule it.
+ (we should really have a button for this :roll: )

It was never a problem when we played in the 80s and early 90s. The person in our group that played a mage, never used any armour, even when we had access to dragon armour and other fun armour types that he could use, he used a staff as a weapon mainly because that was the weapon he started with and was best at even though we had spare magic swords. He believed that he could defend himself (and he could) and others could use those items more than him. He accepted the role he played (and we where young then). Sometimes the GM said that the you can't cast spells in this room because of the walls and floor is made of iron and then he accepted that and the group tried to solve the situation with that in mind and if I (it was mostly me that was GM) needed to rule something, I used my best discretion.
“Thanks for noticin' me.” - Eeyore
 
invader280
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Re: Magic and Iron/Steel Rule Question

Fri 13 Jan 2023, 20:13

I'm wondering what the purpose of the Enchant Weapon spell is. Most weapons are going to have a significant amount of iron or steel and shouldn't be able to be enchanted. That probably leaves staves and bows as the only items that can enchant. At that point, why even include the spell in the game?
 
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Fenhorn
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Re: Magic and Iron/Steel Rule Question

Fri 13 Jan 2023, 20:15

I'm wondering what the purpose of the Enchant Weapon spell is. Most weapons are going to have a significant amount of iron or steel and shouldn't be able to be enchanted. That probably leaves staves and bows as the only items that can enchant. At that point, why even include the spell in the game?
My take on this is that the mage doesn't hold the weapon while casting, only at the end.
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MacDhomnuill
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Re: Magic and Iron/Steel Rule Question

Fri 13 Jan 2023, 23:44

every one demanding more language on this is why games are so damn complicated now. Just house rule it.
+ (we should really have a button for this :roll: )

It was never a problem when we played in the 80s and early 90s. The person in our group that played a mage, never used any armour, even when we had access to dragon armour and other fun armour types that he could use, he used a staff as a weapon mainly because that was the weapon he started with and was best at even though we had spare magic swords. He believed that he could defend himself (and he could) and others could use those items more than him. He accepted the role he played (and we where young then). Sometimes the GM said that the you can't cast spells in this room because of the walls and floor is made of iron and then he accepted that and the group tried to solve the situation with that in mind and if I (it was mostly me that was GM) needed to rule something, I used my best discretion.
A like button or emoji response button would be great. I feel like it is a new phenomenon that players want every this spelled out in the rules, the folks I played with in the 80-00 never played rules as written anyway.

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