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Rathalos32
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Joined: Wed 07 Dec 2022, 20:14

Re: Magic and Iron/Steel Rule Question

Sat 10 Dec 2022, 17:46

I believe a box would help clarify what causes this effect. Yes, it is "clear" that the intention is to restrict the use of magic, but the specifics of at what level and the multitude of possible outcomes WILL lead to confusion and debate in the game, especially since we only have this text to go on.

Another thing to note—and this might have been missed—is that the Wizard has the choice to begin with a knife. The Wizard who chose this would not be able to cast magic because there is no indication of the weight of the knife, and the system considers any if is not specified has 1.
 
Vatrachos
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Joined: Tue 06 Dec 2022, 00:30

Re: Magic and Iron/Steel Rule Question

Sat 10 Dec 2022, 18:43

Playing "Svavelvinter" right now, and that is exactly where we ended last session. Poor players indeed! :twisted:
It's about more than equipment. A floor made of iron would ground a magic user to not be able to cast magic. Direct contact is more about the distance to the magic user and not to the skin of the magic user. And the more iron there is in the nearby are, the more it disrupt the flow of magic.
In one of the adventures from the 80s the adventurers eventually came to a place with iron floor, walls, etc. except for a podium in the center made of stone.This stopped the players from casting spells, but not the evil spellcasters standing on the stone podium. Poor players.
 
Runninghill
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Joined: Thu 08 Dec 2022, 10:50

Re: Magic and Iron/Steel Rule Question

Thu 22 Dec 2022, 11:14

I believe a box would help clarify what causes this effect. Yes, it is "clear" that the intention is to restrict the use of magic, but the specifics of at what level and the multitude of possible outcomes WILL lead to confusion and debate in the game, especially since we only have this text to go on.

Another thing to note—and this might have been missed—is that the Wizard has the choice to begin with a knife. The Wizard who chose this would not be able to cast magic because there is no indication of the weight of the knife, and the system considers any if is not specified has 1.
If every rule was as clear as you would want then the book would be really thick. It might be that some tables of rule lawyers will have some debate over this rule. It has been discussed over the 40 years we have had this rule. Most tables agree on what they think would be suitable for their game. How it works in my world might be different from how it works in your world. The rules are there to help you play and not dictate how you should play.
 
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Master Dio
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Re: Magic and Iron/Steel Rule Question

Mon 26 Dec 2022, 08:18

My table and I are converting our characters from Forbidden Lands to Dragonbane.
Our biggest difficulty is being the "Magic and Iron" rule.
We created this table below as an option so that mage characters can use armor/helms bearing the consequence of paying more WP for it.

MAGIC AND IRON
Armor | Armor Rating | Additional WP Cost:
Leather | 1 | +0
Studded Leather | 2 | +1
Chainmail | 4 | +2
Plate Armor | 6 | +3
Open Helmet | +1 | +1
Great Helm | +2 | +1

Open suggestions...
 
Chekmx
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue 31 Aug 2021, 17:13

Re: Magic and Iron/Steel Rule Question

Tue 27 Dec 2022, 11:34

My table and I are converting our characters from Forbidden Lands to Dragonbane.
Our biggest difficulty is being the "Magic and Iron" rule.
We created this table below as an option so that mage characters can use armor/helms bearing the consequence of paying more WP for it.

MAGIC AND IRON
Armor | Armor Rating | Additional WP Cost:
Leather | 1 | +0
Studded Leather | 2 | +1
Chainmail | 4 | +2
Plate Armor | 6 | +3
Open Helmet | +1 | +1
Great Helm | +2 | +1

Open suggestions...
Making casting a spell whilst wearing iron armour receive a bane on the roll (more Wp consumed in failed rolls and a greater chance of magical mishap)? You could also add a bane on the mishap roll.
 
Saalaksin
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu 29 Dec 2022, 18:58

Re: Magic and Iron/Steel Rule Question

Thu 29 Dec 2022, 19:44

Hello, dear Fria Ligans forum users,

In our local group, we were having a "friendly" discussion about the rule of iron blocking the casting of magic, where the rules are as follows:
Iron has an anti-magical effect, which means that you cannot use magic while in direct contact with iron or steel, except for tiny items.
The form that is being written gave us confusion on what the intention of this rule was, and we were having doubts on how to proceed with it. Some of the questions were: If the caster is using gloves, does that negate "direct contact"? Could the same apply for chainmail on top of a gambeson? When using weapons with iron heads but with wooden shafts or  handles, such as axes and spears, do they count for the rule or not? Are items in the backpack, such as an iron lantern, taken into account? And what if it's around the waist? And if it's at the end of a stick that is around the waist?

So, there were a lot more questions, as this is kinda of ambiguous, and if anyone could clarify or has something else to add to the discussion (like more questions! kkkk) we would love to hear it!

Thank you, dear reader!

How difficult is it to write the rules more clearly?
Like this: "Magic users cannot use Weapons (Even Spears, Axes and other weapons with wooden parts), Armor and any Equipment that have iron or steel."
I Don't Like This. All capital letters, so you know I'm serious. There's plenty of fiction that has Magicians use swords (like Lord of the Rings!), and nobody should have to remove their belt-knife before they lay down a Magic Stool. I feel like this is mostly in place to prevent Mages from wearing armour and ALSO provide non-mages with way to counter magic (heavy iron shackles, or transporting the spellslinger in an iron cage, for instance). This version severely nerfs player flexibility for no other reason than to enforce one, very specific, stereotype of Wizard.
 
Runninghill
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Joined: Thu 08 Dec 2022, 10:50

Re: Magic and Iron/Steel Rule Question

Wed 04 Jan 2023, 23:33

If you don't like don't use it. It's not a very important rule anyway and you will not break the game if you don't use it. The rule has been around for ages and most have changed it to fit their world. If you like wizards with sword and breastplate then allow them to use it.

Edit: Forgot.... magical sword can be used as they can't be made by iron... Armor can be worn if they are made of different material than iron. You can still have you wizard with sword and breastplate it will just be a bit more expensive...
 
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Jedo
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Location: New York, NY USA
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Re: Magic and Iron/Steel Rule Question

Fri 06 Jan 2023, 20:23

So what is 'close proximity'? about a meter? I think knowing a detail like that allows for the referee to make a judgement call and encourages player inventiveness.

In the case of the room with the iron floor, I can see my players opting to hoist the wizard onto the shoulders of the biggest fighter so he can cast spells away from the floor. Which, I would allow, but occasionally have the mage bang his head on a rafter if the Fighter's player specifically didn't state he was paying attention. (then again my games always have a Monty Python vibe to them.)
 
Runninghill
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu 08 Dec 2022, 10:50

Re: Magic and Iron/Steel Rule Question

Sat 07 Jan 2023, 20:43

There is no clear rule of amount of iron and the distance to it. It's up to the group to decide what they want. Going Monty Python on the rules is fine if thats your style. If you like a more serious style then a thing like a iron room would disrupt magic even if the wizard was riding piggy back on someone else.
Some wants to ban all iron and not let wizards even use keys. Others are fine with smaller items.

The game isn't about finding things that circumvent the rules but to play and have fun. The rules are there to help and guide. Change the rules as you feel fit to make your game great!
 
Arioch1973
Posts: 61
Joined: Tue 30 Aug 2022, 16:45

Re: Magic and Iron/Steel Rule Question

Thu 12 Jan 2023, 22:17

This argument is old. It is something inherited from RuneQuest. And you can not cast spells as long as you are in direct contact with iron. This means, you can carry around a sword in its scabbard and cast spells. Just as soon as your bare skin touches the iron, its anti-magical properties kicks in. We used to grind down iron to iron powder and throw it on the enemy sorcerers, just because of this reason.

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