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gebeji
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Re: Dragonbane BETA Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 3 Skills

Wed 07 Dec 2022, 03:54

Tomas wrote this on another Swedish forum (direct translation so the names of the skills
List of proposed skills and weapons

Mmm, how about this?

INT-based : Awareness (includes Spot Hidden), Survival (includes Plant Lore, Orienteering, Hunting/Fishing, Tracking), Healing, Lore (includes Geography, Politics and Religion), Streetwise
AGL-based : Mobility (includes Swim), Stealth, Perform (Dancing, Play instrument), Sleight of Hand, Craft
CHA-based : Animal-handling (includes Riding), Perform (Sing, Act,, Orate), Persuade (includes Haggle & Trick), Command, Intimidate
Weapons : Marksmanship (AGL, includes Bows, Crossbows & Slings), Brawling (STR), Blunt (STR), Piercing (AGL, includes Knives & Spears), Cutting (STR, includes Swords & Axes)

That covers a lot without too much skills, each Attribute is equally useful and other specific Lore-type skills (like Sailing & Alchemy for instance) could be covered by Profession
Last edited by gebeji on Wed 07 Dec 2022, 20:00, edited 1 time in total.
 
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BytomMan
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Re: Dragonbane BETA Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 3 Skills

Wed 07 Dec 2022, 08:43

I’d like to throw out an appeal that a ”Ride” skill be Charisma based rather than Agility.

Being a good rider is more about building trust, a relationship, and reading the animal more than about physical coordination. The latter plays a role but it’s not the most important one. And from a game design perspective Charisma can always use a bit more love.
Maybe call it Animal Handling (Cha)?
 
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jasales
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Re: Dragonbane BETA Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 3 Skills

Wed 07 Dec 2022, 17:10

I think expanding the skills is a mistake. Broader skills means faster play as everyone at the table is more likely to be in the same page as to what skills apply to a situation. I can't say I understand the need to be more backwards compatible. Is the previous game still in print? Does it have as wide an audience? I don't know.

With more skills comes confusion.
Hunting, fishing, survival - which is it?
Awareness and Spot Hidden? which?

When I saw the character sheet for the quick start I thought it was a breath of fresh air. Finally, a simpler game where we know right away what skills to apply. This expansion of the skills seems non-nonsensical to me. I think the original thinking of why to keep the skills at 18 was solid game design. The reasons I've read as to why to expand it just don't make sense to me.

As a game developer myself, coming up with just enough skills and not too many takes a lot of work. Stick with your design goals and create a fun fast game.
 
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MacDhomnuill
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Location: Kansas, US

Re: Dragonbane BETA Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 3 Skills

Wed 07 Dec 2022, 17:20

I think 9 or so more skills will be fine, too many folks are minimalist these days. The list Fenhorn cross posted looks good. I would however like to see skills balanced across attributes. CHA, CON, and WIL get short changed in the beta. Here are my suggestions based on the skill list Tomas posted on the Swedish side:
Bluff (CHA)- combine with persuade and call it influence (CHA)
Botany (INT)- combine with zoology and call it Naturalist
Sleight of Hand (AGL)
Spot Hidden (INT)
Crafts (STR)- this should be variable based on the type of craft, not to many ripped jewelers out there
History (INT)
Jumping & Climbing (AGL)
Hunting & Fishing (AGL)- combine with survival and call it Wilderness (WIL)
Haggle (CHA)- call it bargain or negotiate, make it (WIL)
Healing (INT)
Riding (AGL)- make this a CHA based skill, ask any rider and they will agree.
Swimming (AGL)- swimming should be CON based, its an endurance sport.
Seamanship (INT)
Sneaking (AGL)
Linguistics (INT)
Dodge (AGL)
Performa (CHA)
Awareness (INT)
Survival (INT)- combine with hunting and fishing and call it Wilderness (WIL)
Zoology (INT)- combine with botany and call it Naturalist (INT)
Persuasion (CHA)-combine with bluff and call it influence (CHA)

Crossbows (AGL)
Bows (AGL)- should be STR, drawing a war bow or hunting bow isn’t a challenge to your flexibility.
Knives (AGL)
Blunt Weapons (STR)
Brawling (STR)
Slings (AGL)
Spears (STR)- should be AGL
Swords (STR)- should be AGL
Axes (STR)
 
bigassgeek
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Joined: Thu 08 Dec 2022, 06:04

Re: Dragonbane BETA Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 3 Skills

Thu 08 Dec 2022, 06:06

Adding more skills is a mistake. Adding nine? Far too many. The added detail is a detriment to mayhem and mirth.
 
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VorpalMace
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Re: Dragonbane BETA Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 3 Skills

Thu 08 Dec 2022, 10:22

I'm curious why people invested in a skill-based game if they are against having skills in them. 25 skills is everything but too much and don't add meaningful complexity to the gameplay. Heck, many of them are weapon skills, so they basically do the same shit. Having a bit more skill helps differentiating characters and makes calls for task resolution easier. The current beta skill list leaves plenty of things hanging with its narrow lists, trivializes environmental challanges and social interaction, and has no fitting skills for some tasks that are common in the campaigns I run. I don't fully agree with the new skill list, I would tamper with that one too, but adding a bit more will not turn the game suddenly into GURPS or RoleMaster level nightmare.
 
Possessed
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Re: Dragonbane BETA Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 3 Skills

Fri 09 Dec 2022, 10:35

I am against adding more skills but it is a minor issue compared to removing Class skills/abilities. Those define classes if removed classes loose their meaning.

So I would like the skills to remain as they are and beg of you not to remove the Class skills.
 
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Vile Traveller
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Re: Dragonbane BETA Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 3 Skills

Fri 09 Dec 2022, 10:45

I am against adding more skills but it is a minor issue compared to removing Class skills/abilities. Those define classes if removed classes loose their meaning.

So I would like the skills to remain as they are and beg of you not to remove the Class skills.
Not that they are not 'classes', they are professions. Professions are like backgrounds in D&D, they are previous experience like in RuneQuest or careers in Traveller. Professions do not define your character, who is free to develop in any direction when play begins.

I would like to reiterate my preference for changing the name from profession to background, as the former is obviously causing a lot of confusion.
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Possessed
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Re: Dragonbane BETA Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 3 Skills

Sat 10 Dec 2022, 00:54

I am against adding more skills but it is a minor issue compared to removing Class skills/abilities. Those define classes if removed classes loose their meaning.

So I would like the skills to remain as they are and beg of you not to remove the Class skills.
Not that they are not 'classes', they are professions. Professions are like backgrounds in D&D, they are previous experience like in RuneQuest or careers in Traveller. Professions do not define your character, who is free to develop in any direction when play begins.

I would like to reiterate my preference for changing the name from profession to background, as the former is obviously causing a lot of confusion.
I am extremely sorry to have used wrong term for professions. I still hold on to my point though. If the profession specific skills/abilities are removed the professions themselves become pointless. Jack of all trades already allows you to grow on any direction when the play begins, but removing profession specific skills/abilities could technically lead into a situation where there is a blacksmith character who has no skills in crafting. At which point the professions have become pointless and could just as well not exist as a mechanical thing.

As backgrounds the professions should grant skills specific to said backgrounds so as to justify the characters former training on their profession. Hence profession specific skills/abilities.
 
jalexandratos
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri 16 Dec 2016, 20:28

Re: Dragonbane BETA Rulebook Feedback - Chapter 3 Skills

Sat 10 Dec 2022, 19:49

I am extremely sorry to have used wrong term for professions. I still hold on to my point though. If the profession specific skills/abilities are removed the professions themselves become pointless. Jack of all trades already allows you to grow on any direction when the play begins, but removing profession specific skills/abilities could technically lead into a situation where there is a blacksmith character who has no skills in crafting. At which point the professions have become pointless and could just as well not exist as a mechanical thing.

As backgrounds the professions should grant skills specific to said backgrounds so as to justify the characters former training on their profession. Hence profession specific skills/abilities.
Looking at it another way, by separating the heroic abilities from professions, you get more variety and depth to a character.

For example, the Artisan in your example could've been following in the family trade (even though it makes them unhappy). Maybe they've always wanted to be a musician? They finally leave home in search of adventure and rock-n-roll fame (and take Music as their starting ability). Or maybe their village was raided when the Artisan was young and they were press-ganged to a pirate ship (take Sea Legs).

Hunter starting w/ something other than Animal Kinship - "I want to play Aragorn, not Dr. Doolittle"

Scholar starting w/ Treasure Hunter - Indiana Jones
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