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Blade Runner Cases and Replicants

Posted: Thu 20 Oct 2022, 03:12
by BytomMan
In terms of a case, are blade runner detectives supposed to retire any rogue replicants they encounter, even if those replicants are the current subjects of the investigation?

Re: Blade Runner Cases and Replicants

Posted: Thu 27 Oct 2022, 10:12
by Duckwing
They would need a retirement order first. If they run across rouge replicants they should bring them in and keep them in the lockup while taking care of the paper work to get a retirement order.

Re: Blade Runner Cases and Replicants

Posted: Wed 09 Nov 2022, 04:05
by Lanith
If I'm not mistaken Nexus 8s have a blanket retirement order in place.

Re: Blade Runner Cases and Replicants

Posted: Thu 15 Dec 2022, 03:45
by BytomMan
What do you think happens to N-9 Blade Runners when they die in the line of duty? I'm thinking they get shipped back to Wallace for examination and then disposal, as they are "product." They probably don't get a 21 gun salute that human cops get. :(

Re: Blade Runner Cases and Replicants

Posted: Thu 15 Dec 2022, 03:57
by BytomMan
P. 145 of Core Rulebook:

Responding to the attacks, the UN officially “decommissioned” the Nexus-8 with the UN Prohibition Act of 2023, which effectively authorized the retirement of any positively identified N-8.

Re: Blade Runner Cases and Replicants

Posted: Thu 15 Dec 2022, 09:02
by Midnightplat
I haven't read the books beyond some skims so far, but I think the UN decomission order may be open to interpretation (by the GM, the GM's interpretation then determines if PC/NPC interpretation and enforcement is sanctioned). I don't see it as blanket authorization to retire a N-8 as soon as confirmed. This is a cop game not a war or bug hunt game. Retirement orders seem to be due process documents issued by investigative work product. In the case of retiring a N-8 simply because N-8s are not supposed to exist any more, I think more realistically to the way cops actually are supposed to work, especially retirement bureau cops, the N-8 still needs a retirement order issued, probably following an affidavit attesting "[after boilerplate hero paragraph, summary of the terms of the UN Prohib Act of 2023, and narrative of how you obtained all the facts that led to this request] based on this evidence I've determined subject X is a Nexus 8 replicant and persuent to the UN Prohibition Act of 2023 I request a retirement order for subject X." (I'm cribbing the rhetoric of actual complaints and informations in the U.S. crim legal system that precede arrest/seizure warrants, though I think technically a retirement order, especially one for the Decomission Act may be more a Writ of Execution, which doesn't mean what you probably think it means). Ideally, the N-8 had been arrested on the bladerunner's suspicion, and assuming the order is issued, retirement takes place in a controlled environment. It's of course also possible that at that point in the investigation the N-8 status of the subject is confirmed but the subject is still at large. This is how actual criminal law is supposed to work. I may be wrong, but just retiring a N-8 on a bladerunner's determination of N-8 status seems less Bladerunner and more Judge Dredd.

All that above is how it's supposed to work, and this would be how the "replicant police" would likely operate. Now do police around the world use lethal force with weak or thin justification, the so-called "horrible but lawful?" Turn on the TV. So in Bladerunner you could have a some patrol cops just blowing away a subject they think is a Nexus-8 and believed themselves justified in such an exigent retirement. The fallout from such an incident, that's a story hook.

Re: Blade Runner Cases and Replicants

Posted: Fri 23 Dec 2022, 13:52
by Lieutenant Obvious
It's of course also possible that at that point in the investigation the N-8 status of the subject is confirmed but the subject is still at large. This is how actual criminal law is supposed to work. I may be wrong, but just retiring a N-8 on a bladerunner's determination of N-8 status seems less Bladerunner and more Judge Dredd.

Bear in mind that in the original Blade Runner, Nexus-6 Replicants were tracked down and 'retired' wherever they were found. That was Standard Operating Procedure, because a UN edict had made it illegal for Replicants to be on Earth at all.

Things have changed since then, but that's the history of the Rep-Detect Unit. This likely also contributed heavily to burnouts and suicides among Rep-Detect investigators: They were killing illegal beings who looked, acted, and even died like Humans. Very rare incidents even involved Replicants who had no idea that they weren't Human (like the second Rachel Tyrell). Blade Runners were executioners, not police, and literally anyone could be a Nexus-6. Imagine working in that kind of suspicious, paranoia-inducing environment. Small wonder Rep-Detect investigators are described as the ultimate outsiders.

How serious was the toll this took on the Blade Runners themselves? Deckard had left the RDU, and only came back when Deputy Chief Bryant made it plain that if he didn't, he'd be arrested on trumped-up charges and held until he accepted the assignment (at best). Not only that, but he was placed under arrest for no crime at all just to get him to the office to talk to Bryant! No longer a cop, Deckard was 'little people', and thus fair game.

All that above is how it's supposed to work, and this would be how the "replicant police" would likely operate. Now do police around the world use lethal force with weak or thin justification, the so-called "horrible but lawful?" Turn on the TV. So in Bladerunner you could have a some patrol cops just blowing away a subject they think is a Nexus-8 and believed themselves justified in such an exigent retirement. The fallout from such an incident, that's a story hook.

Not only that, but the details would make the story. If the patrol cops took down a supposed Nexus-8 because he was committing a crime, that's where you start: Was this excessive force? The guy sure looks like the Nexus-8 in the file, right? The investigation seems like it's just PR, but then things start to not add up. Was an innocent 'little guy' killed because some higher-up in the LAPD had a grudge?

You can go the other way, too: Maybe the subject was taken down because he was a Nexus-8, and it sure looks like he was one, but what cause did he give? A little digging reveals that he wasn't committing any crime at the time. Did the officers know at the time that he was a Nexus-8? Is the trigger man a loose cannon with a beef against Replicants of any kind? Will the Blade Runner PCs leave it lie (after all, the officer hasn't technically committed any crime), or dish out some off-the-books justice to balance the scales? You can take this in a lot of directions and tell a completely different story each time.

Re: Blade Runner Cases and Replicants

Posted: Fri 23 Dec 2022, 15:53
by baldrick0712
My feelings are that LA society would expect its Blade Runners to arrest a suspected Replicant if at all possible rather than just execute them on the street but killing a Replicant that resists arrest and attempts to escape is considered better than letting them go.

Re: Blade Runner Cases and Replicants

Posted: Sun 25 Dec 2022, 03:24
by Lieutenant Obvious
My feelings are that LA society would expect its Blade Runners to arrest a suspected Replicant if at all possible rather than just execute them on the street but killing a Replicant that resists arrest and attempts to escape is considered better than letting them go.

In a just society, I think that would be the case. But Deckard's own experiences with the LAPD and Rep-Detect Unit argue otherwise. If you're 'little people' and the cops want you for any reason, you're theirs for the taking. Even in real life, there are a lot of obsolete and downright idiotic laws that are still on the books, and, weird as it sounds, still get traction in a court of law.

LA society is very divided in its opinions about Replicants in general. There remains a Shoot on Sight order for any confirmed Nexus Replicant below 9. How seriously officers follow it is a different matter, especially if they're already dealing with a different problem. Unconfirmed? Detain and investigate, though I expect that a lot of suspected Replicants get a 'shot while attempting to escape' line on the paperwork, especially after an officer gives them the 'look up and left' order. While a reasonable person would expect potential illegal Replicants to be treated like people, that expectation can change fast once a positive ID is made. And there aren't a lot of reasonable people out there, going by the stories about mob violence against even suspected Replicants.

All of that assumes the cops are honest, too. The original Blade Runner was made not long after the third Dirty Harry film. Those films, and the cop movies they inspired, aren't a bad source of inspiration for police-civilian interaction. Magnum Force shows just how wrong a special police unit can go... and all of this is without the Replicant problem and a pseudo-cyberpunk dystopia to worry about.

Re: Blade Runner Cases and Replicants

Posted: Thu 01 Feb 2024, 21:48
by Cpt. Caveman
LA society is very divided in its opinions about Replicants in general. There remains a Shoot on Sight order for any confirmed Nexus Replicant below 9. How seriously officers follow it is a different matter, especially if they're already dealing with a different problem. Unconfirmed? Detain and investigate, though I expect that a lot of suspected Replicants get a 'shot while attempting to escape' line on the paperwork, especially after an officer gives them the 'look up and left' order. While a reasonable person would expect potential illegal Replicants to be treated like people, that expectation can change fast once a positive ID is made. And there aren't a lot of reasonable people out there, going by the stories about mob violence against even suspected Replicants.

Found this thread when I did some research to a question i ran into, when i recently ran the ED scenario and didn't find an answer in the rulebook. I couldn't find a clear statement if nexus 8's are still prohibited. When you read the timeline, it reads that "The UN Council repeals Replicant Prohibition after Niander Wallace unveils the Nexus-9, a revolutionized Replicant design that is reportedly incapable of lying or harming humans of its own accord. As N-9s go into mass production, the UN classifies these “safe” Replicants as secondclass citizens with limited rights. Any act of disobedience is grounds for immediate retirement.".

This why i played that n8's are not prohibited anymore, but under observation and "general suspicion" because I couldn't find anything stating otherwise. I was wondering where you found the above mentioned "shoot-on-sight order". Having a text passage where this is stated would help a lot to clear this question out. Hope anyone finds my late reply and helps me out :)